the decision to have children.

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Permalink Reply by Angelina on June 16, 2008 at 9:20pm

I have to say, that I both admire you maturity at a rather young age (because I think many 20somethings are really not thinking about "real" life or consequenes), yet, I guess its something like hindsight that I also want to give you some tough love and say - everything will work out as its supposed to - don't waste your precious time worrying about it!! Yet, I do remember back when I was your age and "thought" I had it all figured out (didn't we all think that at 23?) Well back then I thought I would be married and having kids by 28!! Whew..28 came and went and all I could think of was "what was I thinking!"

As far as bringing children into this environment - just think, what if our parents thought that - remember the future can not be told - who knows what will happen; but I can't think of a greater gift to the world than raising a environmentally conscious child that could become an amazing adult that could bring about great change. And why would it be selfish to not have children? As you know (and I do too, being raised in a similiar family - my parents gave up everything for us) - its a great sacrifice - but I think its selfish if parents actually consider it a huge sacrifice - my mother for instance will say that we are her world, she has no regrets and wouldn't have it any other way. I never hear her complain about giving up her "me" time and honesty I couldn't picture her another way.

Girl, you must be reading my mind - because the whole getting older and not having someone to take care of you has definitely crossed my mind a few times. Its definitely a tough one and every time I think of it I do feel a bit selfish, its like, do I want kids because I don't want to end up in some nursing home! But then again, if we are living healthy, who says we can't be 95 and living on our own (a coworker of mine's mother is doing exactly that); then I also think of the things you're giving up if you don't have kids - Christmas mornings, birthday parties, first steps, first words, knowing that there's a piece of you, being someones hero and so on and so on - and then on the flip side you have to figure out what you would be giving up if you did have kids - and of course finally, out of those two groups which one can you live without.

And remember just because your mom is going through something doesn't mean you will repeat the pattern - the mere fact that you're putting so much thought into this says so much ~ and I bet you anything if you mom could do it all again, she wouldn't change a thing!

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Permalink Reply by Sarah on June 16, 2008 at 9:58pm

Hey. :) I respect the hell out of you for putting such focused thought into this question. I'll be 29 soon (on Sunday!), and I have three foster kids. My husband and I have been together for 9 years, married for 6.

1. what is your view on bringing children into this world with all the situations at hand? ie:the environment, the economy, the future of our planet, overpopulation, etc?

Children bring change. I hope to pass along the tidbits of information I've gobbled up to them, and see them effect change in this world. It drives me a little batty at times to see people who have gorgeous children and disregard them - hence, my being a foster parent. I have lost puppy dog syndrome and I want to take them all home. I have honestly considered adopting and/or continuing foster care because there are just so many children who deserve thoughtful parents. This could be an awesome route for you - every state needs more foster parents

2. a woman who has had a child verses a woman who hasn't...is one healthier than the other? mentally AND physically?

I feel like I am more responsible for having children. I realize that my actions affect them, and consider them accordingly. It makes me less of a selfish being and helps me to live consciously. This is just my experience, however.

3. is it considered selfish to not have children? at one point in my thoughts on this topic, i was convinced it was.

Gosh, no. No, no, no. If you don't feel you want to have children, that's rockin'. Be a mentor, be someone's favorite aunt, adopt a gramma - don't ever feel locked into our societal role of reproduction machines.

4. it seems obvious that one strong reason to have a big family is so that when you get older and need help or taking care of, they will be there for you. can someone prove me wrong? or is it just too obvious that family help is much more wanted than nursing home help? :)

LOL! I totally never thought of that! I better add an in-law suite to my cob cottage!

5. is it normal to be terrified that you will enjoy having children at first but then grow to hate it because of how much time it takes of you?

It's admirable to consider this.

My advice:

1. Get sticky notes.
2. Write your every hope, dream, and star wish on those sticky notes.
3. Start realizing them!

Most things, you can accomplish with children. Some, you can't. If you feel that there is a strong potential for you to resent a child because you were not able to live out a dream, then bring those intentions to reality now before you have children. *If* you have children.

I am going to wager a wild guess and say that part of the reason you have considered these things heavily is because you feel your mom holds a grudge against you for the things she did not accomplish in her life. You know who's fault it is? Hers. We are the master of our decisions. It's not fair for her to project blame on you.

I really doubt that I am ever going to have natural born children and that's a-okay. You may find the same rings true in your life. Best of luck!

<3

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Permalink Reply by sunnied on June 16, 2008 at 11:06pm

That is so beautiful. I decided about a year ago that if I were to ever have kids, they would be adopted. Thank you for your post.

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Permalink Reply by Rachel on June 17, 2008 at 7:55am

I really, really admire you for taking in foster kids! That is extremely noble. Not enough people give these children the love and support that they need. I am glad to know that one more family has opened themselves up to them. :-)

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Permalink Reply by Sarah on June 17, 2008 at 11:25am

Thank you both so very much. :)

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Permalink Reply by Diana on June 16, 2008 at 10:00pm

I am 28... no kids & with my guy for 11 yrs. I hear ya! Many of the things you courageously vocalized have been thoughts in my own mind.

I'm coming to the realization that nothing in this world is "perfect" and the more you try to control the variables... the more you see.... we really/ truly have little control in this life.

Some things are just a leap of faith. Not to say we should be careless & ignorant when it comes to having kids. It's a big change & serious matter. But we do the best we can, have faith, & leave the rest up to "higher power".

As far as losing yourself for the sake of your kids.... One of my mentors is a fantastic mother who still gives time to herself. You can't give 100%, unless you stop to pour something into you.... empty/dry/ nothing to pull from...

My thoughts...
Di

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Permalink Reply by Food Follows Function on June 16, 2008 at 10:50pm

I help support and raise my much younger siblings. I never planned on doing this, but have found it has done a few things to me. (This answer may ramble on a bit in a loose structure, but I hope it makes some sense. It is certainly theraputic for me anyway).
Without this circumstance I would probably be partying it up in the city, living a more "me" focused lifestyle.
I like design so that energy would have probably focused into owning lots of clothes etc.
I have always liked the idea of an eco/healthy/simple lifestyle, but I would have gotten around to that later in life after I had hedonised a bit. I had fun while studying, but I studied too long and then went into my current situation not long after, so I have never had much abundant cash to just live that selfish, party time thing above a student income as now all my income goes into family. This has forced me to begin my "simple life" earlier than expected. So from that reason it is probably a good thing. Although, I would never expect such a stripped down lifestyle from family members around me. I believe in getting the kids all the fashion, toys, fun adundance I am able to provide, and that lifestyle choices are totally up to them. (I wouldn't have ultimate say in this anyway as they are not my kids and I am just an older brother who provides and influences and I hope to carry such a philosophy into my own family if I ultimately have one).
The other thing it has done is give me a better perspective on my own future choices about having kids. I always liked the idea of having kids, but also felt like the kind of person who could just live a loner existence in a beautiful desert somewhere.
The main change that is hard to put a finger on at first is the idea that helping kids grow up is a task that does not have to always have an immediate benefit or even long term benefit for yourself (i.e. feeling thanks now and love in the future). Something very strange happens when occasionally you get a glimpse of this feeling that you don't actually matter that much. A kind of out of body feeling that they matter more. Really strange and the kind of feeling I thought I wouldn't get until I had kids of my own. Its kinda hard to describe or even recognise.
I think this experience has really taken out the natural fear I had about my own life being stolen away or my identity being lost by kids or in my case, even relationships. I have always liked my own emotional independence as I was effectively an only child until about 17. So now I am open to being part of things other than myself.
It has also focused some of my design thoughts into slow burning, long term hobbies that do not require a stellar career, awards or pats on the back. My ideas can just exist now as a hobby that one unit of a family has. Even if in the future others were to like my design and it required me to pull away from family priorities, I would give it the same slow burning time I give it now as I now feel that family is the most important "statement" or "endevour" I could ever be involved in. My ideas and designs have also had all the excess "look at me now" kinda stuff taken out of them in this process and in doing so made it more life affirming and much simpler. I don't want to go into my hobby as I just love having my own private vision without any external pressure.
I hope some of this diatribe makes sense.

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Permalink Reply by Sarah on June 16, 2008 at 10:52pm

I really think this is an individual decision...it doesn't make you a certain type of person to choose to have kids or not. :) I had 3 unplanned ones and can't imagine life without any of them, but who knows if I'd ever have had them if left to my own planning!

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Permalink Reply by John Coleman on June 18, 2008 at 4:00pm

SNAP!

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Permalink Reply by Tom on June 17, 2008 at 1:44am

hi keriann

IF i'm utterly compelled to have children, i feel the only socially responsible options (malthusian catastrophe in mind) are adoption OR having 2 or less children of my own.

the consistent exponential growth in worldwide overpopulation will have IMMINENTLY devistating reprecussions. baby booming 3 or more of your own kids displaces more than you and your partner into the world. far from selfish, keriann, remaining childless is selfless, altruisic philanthropy as far as im concerned.

what to do? when having children we need to recognize earth's threshold, and act out of a collective social awareness and intentionality. as we've seen from china's 1 child law, it's a touchy thing to govern. that's not the path. there's only one way to mobilize that mass mindfulness: investment in education. that gives me hope, but without openmindedness towards it i fear people won't care and they'll pop um out until shit hits the fan and it's too late. i know it's far fetched, but without globalized easy-access education and mass self-enacted intentionality of the people, space exploration is the only option in my mind to sustain rising population.

there's my 2 cents. youtube search "exponential growth Albert Bartlett" for the mind-blowing facts.

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Permalink Reply by Rachel on June 17, 2008 at 7:51am

I am 23, so we are close to the same age. I have known for...well...my whole life that I do not want to have kids. (Nor do I want to get married, but that a topic for another time, LOL!) I do reserve the right to change my mind - after all, I am pretty young still - but I just do not have that motherly inclination that many people do. And if, on the off chance that I do change my mind and want a family, I have decided that I am going to adopt. I personally cannot bring new children into the world knowing that there are so many out there who still need homes. (I would like to say that I am not trying to offend anyone by saying that - everyone is different, and that is just how I truly, honestly feel.)

On #3, you mentioned that it might be selfish not to have children. I agree, depending on your reasoning. I will even admit that I am being selfish. I just can't imagine spending so much of my time on someone else - I can barely keep my own life together! But I would also have to say that sometimes, having kids is also selfish. Like I said before, there are already so many kids out there who need loving homes, and yet people are still trying to conceive. In my opinion, this is especially true in situations where people are trying to get pregnant through ways that I consider to be "unnatural," such as in-vitro fertilization. They are clearly having trouble getting pregnant naturally, which should be a sign. But so many people want to have their own kids - maybe because they want the experience of being pregnant, maybe for another reason - and I think that is just as selfish as not having kids at all because you don't want to have to deal with the hassle.

#5 - Absolutely, that is normal. I feel the same way, although I have not had the experience you did. :-( I am sure that, if you made a rational, reasoned decision to have children, you would be ready to focus on them AND keep your own life. Given your experiences, you would be better prepared than anyone else to know what to expect and how to prevent becoming "just a mom."

About #1: That one is tricky. On the one hand, I do think everyone needs to consider the overpopulation issue - and its many consequences - before having kids. (Yes, that statement is important enough to be in all bold, LOL!) At the same time, I don't think that overpopulation or other "state of the world" issues should be the only reason not to have kids. As Angelina stated, you can raise kids to have your values and beliefs, and we need more of those people in the world! Of course, you can't guarantee how your kids will turn out - sometimes they follow in your footsteps, sometimes they rebel and take an entirely different path - so you'll have to think about that.

We are young and have plenty of time. I don't know if you are married or have a SO, but if so you may want to talk it over with them. Out of everything I have said, I think the most important thing is to be on the same page as your partner. If one person definitely wants kids, and the other one doesn't, there could be issues in the future, and discussing them early can help prevent problems. If you are not currently attached, then I would mull over what everyone says, but stay flexible. Who knows - it could be 10 or 15 years before you think seriously about having kids, and you could be a completely different person by then! :-)

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Permalink Reply by ॐ Kelly on June 17, 2008 at 8:44am

right from a young age, I knew I didnt want to have kids.
I've been married 3 years, and my hubbys doc wouldnt give him a vasectomy refferal until last oct.
It can be a selfish decision, but HAVING children is also a selfish decision (depending on where you are in your life)
I dont see it as a big deal... and I've learned to brush off the comments from 'friends'
If I do change my mind later on, we've already talked about adoption. I would rather give a better life to someone who is already here, already in a poor situation, rather than create more 'burden for the earth'. Again, just my opinion.

:)

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