Fruit or Fat? + The problem with quinoa, black beans, brown rice?

Posted by Jon Bischke on May 11, 2008 at 12:22am in General Chat

In my search for an optimum diet I'm gravitating more and more to raw. I've been raw for extended stretches but am still having a few stumbling blocks between where I'm at and 100% raw. The biggest one is this. I'm a pretty active, on-the-go guy and seem to need (and do best with) a reasonably high caloric intake. When I've experimented with all-raw it seems like I can only really do it on either a high-fat or high-fruit diet. There just aren't enough calories in raw vegetables.

However, based on all my studies of nutrition (I've read 100s of books by now) I don't think either a high-fat or high-fruit diet is optimal. So that I'm trying to figure out where that leaves me.

It brings me to some other foods that I've generally regarded as being nutritious, namely quinoa, black beans, brown rice, soba noodles, etc. However, while I'm sure sprouting them is a possibility(?) given that I don't have all day to spend on diet I'm not sure that's practical.

So what I'm wondering is...

#1 - Given that it's tough to get to my desired caloric intake on purely raw food, does it make sense to have 20-30% of my diet be foods like quinoa, brown rice, etc. I'd keep 70-80% raw but this would allow me to also keep my fruit and fat intake lower.

#2 - Am I missing something here? Many of you have been raw for a long time. How have you solved it? Most of the recipes in raw cookbooks are super high in fat as are a lot of the dishes at the popular raw restaurants. High fruit seems like an alternative (80-10-10 anyone?) but I'm concerned about high sugar content (even if it's natural), candida, etc.

This seems like the final frontier for me. In other words, if I can crack this nut (no pun intended) then I think I can do the raw vegan thing. But at the same time I get a little discouraged when it seems like neither of the two options are all that healthy.

Thoughts?

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Jon Bischke on May 26, 2008 at 9:27pm: A lot more studying and still no answer to this riddle. It seems like every raw book I read is either promoting a relatively high-fat diet (the vast majority of raw nutrition and raw cookbooks) or high-fruit (e.g., 80/10/10). There seems like a possible third option where you eat mostly greens and sprouts with a few pieces of fruit mixed in and the occasional small amount of nuts/seeds. However, I still haven't seen anyone outline how you can get to a satisfactory caloric intake with sort of diet (most raw nutrition/cookbooks are shockingly devoid of any nutrition information for their recipes/recommended intake). The only challenge with that (from what I've heard) is that you'll likely need to transition in through more high-fat/gourmet raw food (what David Wolfe did) until your body is prepared to live on less calories.

80/10/10 does a great job of outlining macronutrient and caloric intake. It's just that I don't buy into the high fruit diet for a host of reasons.

It'd be great to see someone approach non-high-fruit raw with that intensity. Just haven't seen it yet. Let me know if I'm missing something! :); ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by .·:*¨¨* :·.RawZi.·:*¨¨* :·. on May 27, 2008 at 12:15am: You sprout nuts or seeds and make them into "cheeses" by using rejuvelac, which is also made from sprouts (wheat) and water. These cheeses have plenty of fatty acids and plenty of amino acids. You won't need more calories, or will you? I didn't need more when I did it. I worked on my internship almost endlessly and grew muscles right away on it, etc etc; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Marte on June 12, 2008 at 3:41pm: I don't think you should beat yourself up about eating some cooked food now and then. When I started, I allowed myself to eat cooked/steamed food as long as I only ate one cooked item per meal, and that I ate it a long with raw food. For instance, some chickpeas thrown in to a salad or some tofu in my zuccini pasta.

You see a lot of people eating whatever, as long as it's raw, and I think that can be a great way to get in to raw, but at some point you have to find a balance. You'll get there, I'm sure.

I've been reading a lot about 811, and as a result started eating more fruit & less fat and less root vegetables. No grains exept some rice on occasion - but then I've never done well with grains, not even quinoa, sadly. So far I've had only good experiences, especially the days I do more heavy work out (running and off road biking). It's even been hard to keep my pulse up on the level where I want it (to get a good workout).

What I'm doing right now is eating fruit in the morning (usually a fruit smoothie), fruit as a mid meal snack, fruit or a salad for lunch, then a fruit again, then fruit juice or green smoothie. I don't eat fat untill dinner-time, that is.

I have no overview of caloric intake, I pretty much go by instinct. I just feel great :); ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by nycgrrl on June 12, 2008 at 4:39pm: i am similar to you, except i have a big salad for lunch. If i eat grains or pseudograins, i wait til dinner, as they tend to make me a little sleepy. for me, it's great on days when i run and want to get more calories but not more fat.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by buddhababy on June 12, 2008 at 5:26pm: Yes, this is what I did. I was eating a high fat primal diet, then went to gourmet raw and then ended up where I am now which is high greens, some fruit and little in the way of nuts/seeds (I react to proteins). What I focus on is biophotons- and it's what I call the third option between high fat raw and high fruit raw.

I'm one who has approached the high greens with no superfood supplements with intensity. It works very well for me and the body does adjust to it although it takes time to make the shift occur.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Heather on June 12, 2008 at 6:27pm: hi buddhababy,
i hear you referring to a primal diet and i don't really think i know what this means. is that a raw diet where you eat raw meat?; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by buddhababy on June 12, 2008 at 7:25pm: http://hilarion.com/rawvid.html

Yes, it's not raw paleo but was developed by Aajounus Vonderplanitz (a long time living foodist since 1971- was fruitarian) and his ever evolving theory of disease.

Rawzi knows more, it;s been years since I've done it. I got into before he started to suggest high meat, I did let my berries mold though (AV says that's a specific detox remedy to detox antibiotics from the system).; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by buddhababy on June 12, 2008 at 7:34pm: Also his site:

http://www.wewant2live.com/; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Toni on June 12, 2008 at 7:41pm: Thanks for posting this link. I had questions about this myself.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by .·:*¨¨* :·.RawZi.·:*¨¨* :·. on July 25, 2008 at 12:59am: I did let my berries mold though (AV says that's a specific detox remedy

Buddhababy, how did you do with that? May sound strange to everyone, but I'm scared of that one (even though high meat doesn't scare me). He says that it can take months to get through that detox. I'll eat a little mold on berries, but never in the big dose (yet). He hasn't tried to prescribe it to me anyway. He recommended fresh lemon twice a week to me for an easier longer detox. Are the moldy berries for Altzheimers too?; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by sprout on June 11, 2008 at 3:38pm: I didn't read through all the responses, so sorry if I'm repeating.

Have you tried incorporating cooked "quinoa, black beans, brown rice, soba noodles" into your diet in the proportions you feel would satisfy your ideal caloric/fat/sugar intake? Being a fuzzy logic gal, I'd try it for 21 days, and observe whether you feel better, worse or same. Afterall, we're not machines, but rather, beings.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by sprout on June 12, 2008 at 4:44pm: Also, have you tried packaged raw organic granola or other similar pre-sprouted & pre-packaged products? I've tried the Go Raw granola made predominately with sprouted buckwheat groats and it was tasty, tho I don't know the exact nutritional breakdown.; ▶ Reply to This