Fruit or Fat? + The problem with quinoa, black beans, brown rice?

Posted by Jon Bischke on May 11, 2008 at 12:22am in General Chat

In my search for an optimum diet I'm gravitating more and more to raw. I've been raw for extended stretches but am still having a few stumbling blocks between where I'm at and 100% raw. The biggest one is this. I'm a pretty active, on-the-go guy and seem to need (and do best with) a reasonably high caloric intake. When I've experimented with all-raw it seems like I can only really do it on either a high-fat or high-fruit diet. There just aren't enough calories in raw vegetables.

However, based on all my studies of nutrition (I've read 100s of books by now) I don't think either a high-fat or high-fruit diet is optimal. So that I'm trying to figure out where that leaves me.

It brings me to some other foods that I've generally regarded as being nutritious, namely quinoa, black beans, brown rice, soba noodles, etc. However, while I'm sure sprouting them is a possibility(?) given that I don't have all day to spend on diet I'm not sure that's practical.

So what I'm wondering is...

#1 - Given that it's tough to get to my desired caloric intake on purely raw food, does it make sense to have 20-30% of my diet be foods like quinoa, brown rice, etc. I'd keep 70-80% raw but this would allow me to also keep my fruit and fat intake lower.

#2 - Am I missing something here? Many of you have been raw for a long time. How have you solved it? Most of the recipes in raw cookbooks are super high in fat as are a lot of the dishes at the popular raw restaurants. High fruit seems like an alternative (80-10-10 anyone?) but I'm concerned about high sugar content (even if it's natural), candida, etc.

This seems like the final frontier for me. In other words, if I can crack this nut (no pun intended) then I think I can do the raw vegan thing. But at the same time I get a little discouraged when it seems like neither of the two options are all that healthy.

Thoughts?

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by buddhababy on May 16, 2008 at 3:55pm: Salad or in between a meal - just a spoonful! I have been using hemp seeds combined with fruit/smoothie the past few days and while I love the taste/texture it imparts I'm not so sure it's ideal for me.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Pink Lady Apple on May 16, 2008 at 3:57pm: That was the other thing. Are hemp seeds best with greens only, like on salads? That was my thought. From all that I've read on fats and fruits I'm thinking it is best to keep the oils and fruits separate and only add things like avocados to fruit smoothies or soups.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by buddhababy on May 16, 2008 at 6:44pm: Funny, I was making avo-fruit smoothies and that didn't sit well, the hemp smoothies just take longer to go through elimination wise than what I'm used to- they don't feel heavy in my stomach, give me gas, bloating or anything like that. I just find it slows bowel function a bit.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Pink Lady Apple on May 16, 2008 at 8:01pm: Back to that darn bowel function :)

I use avocados in some of my soup recipes. Since we had that discussion about the level of fats in the diet relating to the body fat percentage I have been trying to cut them out, for the short term. I'm just not willing to let go of them for the long-term, too delish :) I don't seem to have a problem with them. I grew up with lots of guacamole and salsas.

I'll try sprinkling some hemp seeds on my salads. I wonder how long those hemp seeds last in the fridge, mmmmm...

Cute picture by the way :)

Permalink Reply by Bryonna on May 16, 2008 at 7:28pm: What sort of skin condition did you get? I'm asking because on my chest my skin looks dry and flaky yet it is very soft, not dry feeling at all. It goes through stages of being really flakly, like after you get sunburned to being not very noticable. I haven't figured out what its from and its been like that for over a year....wondering if it could be that i'm not getting enough EFA's.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by buddhababy on May 16, 2008 at 7:38pm: Yup, exactly like that and itchy. It clears up once I add more variety to my diet.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by .·:*¨¨* :·.RawZi.·:*¨¨* :·. on July 25, 2008 at 3:38am: by kayell 11 hours ago
.... You probably won't destroy your brain in 30 days unless you do the raw opium diet or something.

The Raw Opium diet may depress your breathing to death, but it's actually not neurotoxic, so if you're worried about your brain, eat away!

Homeopathy - Opium
Raw Poppy Flowers
Poppies, Raw Opium

Disclaimer: This is just a joke in poor taste; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Jon Bischke on May 16, 2008 at 8:04pm: @Pink Lady - According to Graham, olives should be avoided. The reason for this is olives in the raw aren't actually edible (http://www.practicallyedible.com/edible.nsf/pages/rawolives). Plus, they're high in fat. I'm not saying I agree with him...just saying what he says. :)

Also, in terms of family history they certainly weren't eating nearly as healthy as I do. But I still err on the side of caution here. Every member of my family on one side has a history of depression, I have an uncle that committed suicide, etc. So I don't really want to mess around here. I'd gladly take a diet that optimized for the brain and sub-optimal in other areas over a diet that's sub-optimal for the brain.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Pink Lady Apple on May 16, 2008 at 8:30pm: It's hard when you have a history of depression in the family. My husband's history is alzheimer's and it sort of hangs over your head all the time. So, I completely understand how you would want more clarification on that.

I was on depression medication when I went raw and that is one of five prescriptions that I weaned myself off of. I have found that if I don't stick to a high raw diet and I go back to the SAD that I do get a little more depressed and emotional (more than I usually am :) Any correlation, who knows. I just got tired of taking the medications, they weren't good for me. I don't have any major depressive episodes if I stick high raw.

As for the olives, that is hilarious. The reason being...I got the idea of the tomatoes and olives dressing from his audio tapes. He did a series of talks at a Natural Hygiene conference in the late 80s, because that is his background before all the 80-10-10 stuff. On one of the tapes he does a demo of food prep and he states that is one of his favorite dressings. It is the "Cause of Health" tapes that he still sells on his site, now in DVD. I have cassette version, maybe he'll edit that out :)

As I said, we all do what is right for us. I love olives and I still eat them because they make me happy :) So, you see, I don't follow anyone else's method of eating, I follow my own.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Jon Bischke on May 16, 2008 at 8:46pm: Good stuff. I'd definitely credit diet as a big part of why I'm one of the few people in my family who isn't taking antidepressants.

And yeah, I'd have a hard time sticking to a diet that considered olives unhealthy. While they might not be kale they sure as hell ain't a fast food burger. :); ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Pink Lady Apple on May 16, 2008 at 9:48pm: Life without olives, just shoot me now!!! Maybe in a few years I may change my mind, but for now olives and avocados need to stay in my diet and they will :)

I am not a doctor but I do believe that diet has a lot to do with depression, at least it did with mine. I didn't become depressed because of my diet (it was personal issues), but the raw diet helped me to stop taking the medications, if that makes any sense at all.

I hope you find what you are looking for Jon. As Buddhababy said, you aren't going to find it in books, you will find it in yourself. The books only point you in the right direction. You need to take the first steps in that direction. If the course changes along the way, so be it.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by nycgrrl on June 11, 2008 at 3:51pm: I have a history of depression as well, Jon. I am weaning off of antidepressants, and have been for 2 months, so we'll see if incorporating some quinoa etc into my diet affects my mood. It's really important to me to include sufficient omega 3's in my diet--without them, symptoms of anxiety and depression show up--so for now, i am eating flax seeds and hemp oil which would bring my fat proportion up too high if i weren't eating foods that are dense calorically like quinoa, peas, beans.

So far, so good (it's only been 2 days though.); ▶ Reply to This