Vegans and meat-eating pets.

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Permalink Reply by Lucy Wilkins on March 25, 2008 at 10:11am

Hi Elizabeth
I have struggled with this very issue myself as a raw vegan living with a canine and four feline carnivores.

The conclusion i have come to -( although it isnt really a conclusion if we take the view that we are simply on a path) is that nature knows best how cats and dogs should eat,and who are we to interfere with that.

I beleive that humans are not naturally vegans ( we would eat bugs & grubs etc if we were really feral- yuk), however many of us choose not to buy into the animal abuse system which the human food chain has become.

Our domesticated pets did not choose this way of life. They do not have issues with the death that nature brings,life and death are part of the great circle of being. I do not feel that we have the right to alter their diet because we dont like the way we have made things.

When I take my dog out for a walk she will chase rabbits, pheasants etc- but show her a field of cereal and she's not impressed!! She knows what she needs to eat.

From a physical point dogs and cats are designed as carnivores, they are predators and have the physiology to prove it. I read a book by UK vet- living in Australia- Tom Lonsdale, Raw meaty Bones, which outlines thereasons for feeding meat to carnivores. ( He also has a website) I have fed my rescue Collie ( Foxy Molly the naughty Collie) on raw meaty bones since November and she is thriving on it. I also fed my four cats on free range raw chicken wings, one cat who was on steroids due to a skin condition is now off all medication.

it can be difficult i know but I think if we are going to keep animals as pets the least we can do is allow them to live in as instinctual a way as possible. i visit my free range butcher and get some free bones and have to pay for some, works out slightly more expensive. Sometimes I find a roadkill pheasant and give her that.But .... a vegan diet is not natural for a dog or cat and can lead to bloat (which causes a slow painful death).

I feed Molly her bones in thegarden as I drink my green smoothie,and always give thanks to Mother nature for her wisdom. Intention is the main thing, whatever you decide do it from a space of love rather that a space of fear.

Hope that helps!! Let me know how you are getting on. xxx

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Permalink Reply by D-ra on April 16, 2008 at 3:03pm

beautiful reply. thanks for your insight. I'm thinking of beginning the raw meaty bones plan with my dog, but haven't yet. good to hear your positive experience

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Permalink Reply by Jess on July 25, 2008 at 2:51pm

Yeah, I feel really guilty feeding my dog meat, but I know she can't live otherwise. I guess I just take comfort knowing that I am buying from more ethical suppliers who hopefully treat their livestock decently.

I'm still working out the best diet for my dog. I recently switched her off commercial dog food to homemade. I'm going off recommendations I've found online right now until I can figure out the best way to switch her to raw. For my dog it's like 70% protein, 15% starch, and 15% veggies. She gets a mixture of ground beef, ground turkey, liver, rice, beans, and raw carrots, broccoli, and green beans.

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Permalink Reply by Vicky Ewbank on August 6, 2008 at 6:18am

As a dog lover and carer for about 13 years now I am fully convinvced that a raw meaty bone diet is the only diet that can result in optimal dog and cat health! Also as a vegan of 13 years, I did feed my own dog on a cereal based vegan dog food for two years when she was young - she didn't thrive! I noticed an enormous difference in her health and energy levels when I changed her to raw and meaty. I have since looked after many dogs as I worked as a pet sitter and dog walker. All the dogs I looked after I fed raw with no complaints and no fussy eaters - just very big smiles and wagging tails! I have realised that I can't impose my own set of values upon my animals - especially the carnivores that I share my days with.
Physiologically they are very different to humans, not just their teeth and jaws, but also the very fact that their blood is naturally acidic, their digestive juices are strong enough to dissolve bone and they never suffer from elevated cholesterol levels no matter how much saturated fat they eat! (see the studies in John Robbins Diet for a New America)
I have come to a happy compromise though. Luckily I live in a rural area where people hunt deer and raise wild boar - free range and organic. I put the word out that I need plenty of fresh meaty bones and found a local hunter/butcher/farmer who is happy to give me all his waste bones and trimmings whenever he has them. It saves him burying them and he likes to see them go to a good cause. I'm happy knowing the animals I feed to my dogs have the best, most natural lives and I'm not funding the intensive farming industry. I did buy a big freezer!
I often have to uphold my point of view when talking with vets...but like doctors they are not unbiased when so much of their funding and nutritional training comes from large pet food manufacturers. The proof to me is the happy, smiling, healthy dogs I've had the pleasure to spend time - all with the cleanest teeth and freshest breath. I love my dogs enough to want the best for them - and they love their bones!
Oh - one point though - give them large chunks of meat that they have to tear and chew, and large bones they have to crush and work at. The excercise is as important as the food, the longer it takes them to eat the more their digestive juices are stimulated and the better their digestion. Also the more fun they have!
Hope my experience helps.

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Permalink Reply by Vicky Ewbank on August 11, 2008 at 1:33pm

Hi Raw Zi - people who reckon animals don't have emotions and can't show happiness are walking around in a cloud of denial with blindfolds on! I think the idea of animal as machine is well out of date now, aided by the declaration that Animals are now officially recognised as sentinent beings. The arrogance of humans...
I'm type O, and have a bad time with animal foods - intolerant of all, thankfully! I think you're right. Dogs and cats have a very different blood type and digestive system to ours.

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Permalink Reply by Elizabeth on August 8, 2008 at 4:20pm

know anything about cats?
I found that all very helpful
thanks

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Permalink Reply by Vicky Ewbank on August 11, 2008 at 1:20pm

Cats are also natural carnivores and should be fed in the same way - chicken wings, chunks of meat that they have to chew - it cleans their teeth and works the gums. Try looking up the website by Tom Lonsdale www.rawmeatybones.com. He has a great article on transitioning cats. Although I guess cats could be fussier I've never seen a healthy animal turn down its natural diet!

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Permalink Reply by Victoria Moran on August 17, 2008 at 11:16am

This is a fascinating thread. I have a cat and never thought of trying to make him vegetarian since I've read that cats are compulsory carnivores; even with taurine supplementation, it's hard for them to live as vegetarians, although I know there have been cases of people doing it successfully. When I give the raw cat food instead of canned, he acts very happy. I am a little freaked by the warnings on the box about the hygienic concerns of raw meat, although I suppose most people deal with raw meat in their own cooking. As for dogs, I know they can be healthy as vegetarians even though it is obviously not their natural state. My daughter has two healthy dogs who eat homemade vegan food except for a free-range egg apiece in the morning. One of the dogs is 14 years old which, for a dog her size, is pretty remarkable.

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Permalink Reply by Lucy Wilkins on August 12, 2008 at 6:39am

Yes please BB, would love to see a pic of your cat !! xx

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Permalink Reply by Elizabeth on August 27, 2008 at 5:23am

How do you get a cat to eat veggies? Mine will not go near them. Except for my baby goji berry plant that the kittens love demolishing. What kind of vegetables do you give him?
My cats are still on a bit of dry food with no preserves etc, but mostly raw meat. They only will eat so much raw meat and then will just not eat because they want the dry food. Though I would love to take them off of it altogether, my husband for some reason feels uneasy about giving them so much raw meat (wtf) despite his apparent understanding about raw diets for humans.
Anyways do you suppose that maybe they would eat raw veg if they got the dry food out of their system?
Thanks.

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Permalink Reply by Elizabeth on August 27, 2008 at 5:16am

The cats I have are two kittens and their mother. I got them from my guy's sister who figures that if her animals eat the families left-overs (pizza, chips, pasta, cereal filled with sugar + covered in cow's milk, etc) that it's better because she doesn't have to buy as much hard dry cat food of the cheapest kind for them. I had them on a better kind of dry before I switched to raw foods until the weirder crap was out of them. And though when I first gave them raw meat, they pretty much attacked it, the mother is getting picky eventhough I try to vary what I give them. I stick to different kinds of fish and chicken as that is probably closer to the sort of thing they would eat. I don't give them pig or cow because I just don't see these cats attacking those animals for their meat, if they were in the wild, you know?
Anyways I am still trying things out.
I can't even go on about feeling bad about encouraging the killing of certain animals for my pets' diets right now as I have dabbled in naughty meat eating as of late. Which is obviously way worse!
Anyways thanks <3

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Permalink Reply by Carla on August 14, 2008 at 2:00pm

I am interested in starting to feed my cats raw meet, I am currently searching for the best and most economically for me off course, on where to get the raw free range naturally raised animals for them to eat. I'm looking in the NYC and Boston area now and am considering asking my uncle who hunts on wild game in rural pennsilvania and always bring it back to New England. I never thought i would ask him about his hunting, I was always a little weirded out, but I know that for my cats health I want to make the change for them to the most natural diet.

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