Why the 80/10/10 diet is NOT for everyone and not for everywhere and thus is claiming to much...
Well, I think it is time to make a balanced thread about the 80/10/10 diet and it's claims
which, to my opinion, are to generalizing and can't be supported, neither by it's own theory and nor
by any other theory around.
** I will slowly build up this thread with contra-arguments (and pro arguments, as much as I can find.). ,
and will also give SUPPORTING arguments a place.
** ALL people are invited to post about contra- and pro arguments...., i will process these at this
(opening) place, in the beginning of this thread.
** I assume that my contra-arguments are NOT handled by the 80/10/10 - book of Dr. Graham,
which is my main objection against this book: it's basis is to small, and it doesn't handle
enough the main questions which arise against it's statements, which shows a lack of imagination
and a lack of ability for whole integrated proper discussions.
If I am wrong, I will be glad to correct my objections, if people give quotes from the book...
** Don't get me wrong: I also have some big objections against for example Hippocrates Institute,
(they just ignore my mails, lol..) .I am not choosing a side, I only choose for wide discussions.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
contra-arguments against 80/10/10:
1. Geographical objections: 80/10/10 doesn't take into account that people are living in
different geographical places. MOST of the fruit in my country is not tree-riped , when bought by the
consumers. Fruit, when eaten unripe and/or not tree-riped, can be a damage for the body, robbing it
of nutrients of high value. If it isn't damaging, at least fruit, not eaten right from the tree/plant etc..
is less than optimal....
Eating tree-riped papaya in the tropics is a whole different thing to value
than the unripe ones having travelled for weeks in a box....
We also can talk about te loss in nutrients during the transport of these fruits..., wintertime (less
fruits...).
(according to Hippocrates institute..).
2. A minor point: The banana-hype.. This is about having critics on others, about
superfoods etc.., but apparently not looking close enough to one´s own behaviour..
- Unfortunately almost all banana's are monocultured hybrides, and the largest amount
of banana's is made from only 2 types (out of all the possible varieties which could exist,
if for money reasons not just a mere 2 types are being brought into production...) .
This makes the total banana population very sensitive for illness: one very good plague,
and it could be over with banana's.
It is always very good, BEFORE having a certain opinion, to try to falsify this belief.
I hope the falsifying of the BANANA HYPE is made possible by this reaction.
Eating many banana's is supporting the killing of biodiversity. Not for everyone.
3. Sweetness of fruit has been changed. MOST of the fruit-producers/tailers never heard from
80/10/10 or natural hygiene. Because sweet fruit sells better than the original less sweeter types
from the past, a lot of fruit is much more sweet than it used to be. This is in flagrant contradiction with
all the arguments natural hygients use, like "natural" and emphesis on the diets from the past.
4. Depleted soils.
NaturalNews) According to U.S. Senate Study Document Number 264, due to agricultural topsoil depletion, 99 percent of Americans are deficient in minerals and trace elements due to food crop topsoil depletion. No big surprise maybe, except this study was reported in 1936! Since then, there have been USA and UK studies that have shown disturbing decreases in the mineral contents of foods from the soil over the past 50 years.
Just keep eating your high fruits, no problem for anyone. But bashingother people for eating high
density foods (spirulina, chlorella etc..) without argumenting about the depletion of our soils, and the l
lack of nutrients in most of our common foods, is a bit without reasoning....
Most of our farmers are not so health-educated as we are, and I say I can't trust their soils to be top-
filled with nutrition.
5. The ape-argument. We should eat like apes, I read... Some also say we should only eat
what we can grab with our hands. If we eat like apes, in the same logica mentioned by these people
there is a good possibility we re-evolve back into apes (you are what you eat...). Everyone
their own pleasure, and some people are better of being apes,
but may we conclude this is not ideal for everyone?
Can I also say apes sometimes kill little animals and eat them? Should we do the same, following
their diet?
Some say we should not eat foods we can't grab. Is there, besides biological similarity between apes
and humans, not something like a difference called CULTURE?
We also make art, why shouldn't we evolve in the way we harvest our food?
Some foods are mentioned for apes and humans, others are ment for humans
which have been evolved in cultural ways..
BTW: Apes also use tools, for example in order to harvest ants with a stick....
6. Age. Where are the older natural hygientists? Yes, you young ones look all
very pretty, I admit (lol..). Mostly because of the fact you don't eat processed- but only whole foods.
But where does it go after the age of 60? I am aslo a little afraid that every natural hygienist
developping cancer or other serious illness , will have no courage to share in his/her community,
because there is only one perfect diet, and if you get cancer you must have done something wrong
etc, because fruit is the most easiest to digest etc.....The intolerance also works WITHIN the own community, there will be no place for so
called "losers", only the prospering will be in the picture..
7. Bashing Hippocrates What most strict diet pushers won't know, why should you study
ouside your own range, is that the OFFICIAL Hippocrates diet is also 80 10 10, only not with high
fruit, but with healthier slow carbohydrates from algae, sprouts, greens etc.....
Before accusing Hippocrates that this is not possible (like Patenaude does, indirectly..)
it could be a good idea to contact them and ask about a breakdown and to explain these numbers.
No, Hippocrates is also not good in outwards communication and keeping an good imago in the
rawfood-world, they just seem to be busy with healing (quite important, not..?)
Ever noticed that almost no-one actively defends or supports the Hippo-diet at this place,
compared to the hyperactive pushing/defending hygienists?
Because the Hippo's know the diet is self-evident, like all things closer to truth...
Further is the accusation of pushing products, when talking about Hippocrates, completely
besides the truth: most of what they advise is not a moneymaker for them (greens, cucumbers, high
sprouts and wheatgrass) and even most of the supplements on their website don't even name the
ingredients, not smart if you want to sell much. Of cause all these points are known and considered
by the one's with negative info about this institute.
*8. Bashing TCM (Traditional Chinese Medicine) herbs, spices etc...Bashing 5000 years of Chines Medicine, because one person, not even a real Doctor, is
saying herbs are irritating, gives me a weird feeling of imbalance.....
There are thousends of studies about for example curcuma, most of them done by universities
and Doctor's, who don't have interests and benefits in selling this spice....
There is almost no illness which doesn't benefit from Curcuma, neither a bodyfunction
in healthy people which isn't waiting for Curcuma. There is no moneytrack behind these studies, the
same is the case for many other studies about herbs and spices. It is a shame to me
for bashing these beautiful products, and an insult right into the face of a part of our sparkling
natural environment.
9. Environmental objections
I think our environment has changed a lot since the times of our apestadium, ans so an ape-diet
(fruit & greens) is NOT enough to balance the changed environment.
I name a few things like: stress, polution in all natural elements, EMF-radiation...,
So 80 10 10 is not for everyone and everywhere...
* More and more animals are getting cancer now, no matter they are eating their natural diet, without
superfoods! It is not enough for them!!
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17358-hidden-cancer-threat-to...
NO DISCUSSION POINTS:
- Whether we used to be frugivores or ominvores in the past, seems not to be a usefull argument by me.
Our knowledge about food has changed so much since the past, so does our culture.
Relying on the past, is more believing than knowing.
I think the presence should have more weight , the past is gone and with it a big part of the
evidence.
Also, when there should be proof for a specific diet in the past, this doesn't say that our bodies and our circumstances, how they are at this time, NOW, would trive with that same diet.
* To be continued....
which, to my opinion, are to generalizing and can't be supported, neither by it's own theory and nor
by any other theory around.
** I will slowly build up this thread with contra-arguments (and pro arguments, as much as I can find.). ,
and will also give SUPPORTING arguments a place.
** ALL people are invited to post about contra- and pro arguments...., i will process these at this
(opening) place, in the beginning of this thread.
** I assume that my contra-arguments are NOT handled by the 80/10/10 - book of Dr. Graham,
which is my main objection against this book: it's basis is to small, and it doesn't handle
enough the main questions which arise against it's statements, which shows a lack of imagination
and a lack of ability for whole integrated proper discussions.
If I am wrong, I will be glad to correct my objections, if people give quotes from the book...
** Don't get me wrong: I also have some big objections against for example Hippocrates Institute,
(they just ignore my mails, lol..) .I am not choosing a side, I only choose for wide discussions.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
contra-arguments against 80/10/10:
1. Geographical objections: 80/10/10 doesn't take into account that people are living in
different geographical places. MOST of the fruit in my country is not tree-riped , when bought by the
consumers. Fruit, when eaten unripe and/or not tree-riped, can be a damage for the body, robbing it
of nutrients of high value. If it isn't damaging, at least fruit, not eaten right from the tree/plant etc..
is less than optimal....
Eating tree-riped papaya in the tropics is a whole different thing to value
than the unripe ones having travelled for weeks in a box....
We also can talk about te loss in nutrients during the transport of these fruits..., wintertime (less
fruits...).
(according to Hippocrates institute..).
2. A minor point: The banana-hype.. This is about having critics on others, about
superfoods etc.., but apparently not looking close enough to one´s own behaviour..
- Unfortunately almost all banana's are monocultured hybrides, and the largest amount
of banana's is made from only 2 types (out of all the possible varieties which could exist,
if for money reasons not just a mere 2 types are being brought into production...) .
This makes the total banana population very sensitive for illness: one very good plague,
and it could be over with banana's.
It is always very good, BEFORE having a certain opinion, to try to falsify this belief.
I hope the falsifying of the BANANA HYPE is made possible by this reaction.
Eating many banana's is supporting the killing of biodiversity. Not for everyone.
3. Sweetness of fruit has been changed. MOST of the fruit-producers/tailers never heard from
80/10/10 or natural hygiene. Because sweet fruit sells better than the original less sweeter types
from the past, a lot of fruit is much more sweet than it used to be. This is in flagrant contradiction with
all the arguments natural hygients use, like "natural" and emphesis on the diets from the past.
4. Depleted soils.
NaturalNews) According to U.S. Senate Study Document Number 264, due to agricultural topsoil depletion, 99 percent of Americans are deficient in minerals and trace elements due to food crop topsoil depletion. No big surprise maybe, except this study was reported in 1936! Since then, there have been USA and UK studies that have shown disturbing decreases in the mineral contents of foods from the soil over the past 50 years.
Just keep eating your high fruits, no problem for anyone. But bashingother people for eating high
density foods (spirulina, chlorella etc..) without argumenting about the depletion of our soils, and the l
lack of nutrients in most of our common foods, is a bit without reasoning....
Most of our farmers are not so health-educated as we are, and I say I can't trust their soils to be top-
filled with nutrition.
5. The ape-argument. We should eat like apes, I read... Some also say we should only eat
what we can grab with our hands. If we eat like apes, in the same logica mentioned by these people
there is a good possibility we re-evolve back into apes (you are what you eat...). Everyone
their own pleasure, and some people are better of being apes,
but may we conclude this is not ideal for everyone?
Can I also say apes sometimes kill little animals and eat them? Should we do the same, following
their diet?
Some say we should not eat foods we can't grab. Is there, besides biological similarity between apes
and humans, not something like a difference called CULTURE?
We also make art, why shouldn't we evolve in the way we harvest our food?
Some foods are mentioned for apes and humans, others are ment for humans
which have been evolved in cultural ways..
BTW: Apes also use tools, for example in order to harvest ants with a stick....
6. Age. Where are the older natural hygientists? Yes, you young ones look all
very pretty, I admit (lol..). Mostly because of the fact you don't eat processed- but only whole foods.
But where does it go after the age of 60? I am aslo a little afraid that every natural hygienist
developping cancer or other serious illness , will have no courage to share in his/her community,
because there is only one perfect diet, and if you get cancer you must have done something wrong
etc, because fruit is the most easiest to digest etc.....The intolerance also works WITHIN the own community, there will be no place for so
called "losers", only the prospering will be in the picture..
7. Bashing Hippocrates What most strict diet pushers won't know, why should you study
ouside your own range, is that the OFFICIAL Hippocrates diet is also 80 10 10, only not with high
fruit, but with healthier slow carbohydrates from algae, sprouts, greens etc.....
Before accusing Hippocrates that this is not possible (like Patenaude does, indirectly..)
it could be a good idea to contact them and ask about a breakdown and to explain these numbers.
No, Hippocrates is also not good in outwards communication and keeping an good imago in the
rawfood-world, they just seem to be busy with healing (quite important, not..?)
Ever noticed that almost no-one actively defends or supports the Hippo-diet at this place,
compared to the hyperactive pushing/defending hygienists?
Because the Hippo's know the diet is self-evident, like all things closer to truth...
Further is the accusation of pushing products, when talking about Hippocrates, completely
besides the truth: most of what they advise is not a moneymaker for them (greens, cucumbers, high
sprouts and wheatgrass) and even most of the supplements on their website don't even name the
ingredients, not smart if you want to sell much. Of cause all these points are known and considered
by the one's with negative info about this institute.
*8. Bashing TCM (Traditional Chinese Medicine) herbs, spices etc...Bashing 5000 years of Chines Medicine, because one person, not even a real Doctor, is
saying herbs are irritating, gives me a weird feeling of imbalance.....
There are thousends of studies about for example curcuma, most of them done by universities
and Doctor's, who don't have interests and benefits in selling this spice....
There is almost no illness which doesn't benefit from Curcuma, neither a bodyfunction
in healthy people which isn't waiting for Curcuma. There is no moneytrack behind these studies, the
same is the case for many other studies about herbs and spices. It is a shame to me
for bashing these beautiful products, and an insult right into the face of a part of our sparkling
natural environment.
9. Environmental objections
I think our environment has changed a lot since the times of our apestadium, ans so an ape-diet
(fruit & greens) is NOT enough to balance the changed environment.
I name a few things like: stress, polution in all natural elements, EMF-radiation...,
So 80 10 10 is not for everyone and everywhere...
* More and more animals are getting cancer now, no matter they are eating their natural diet, without
superfoods! It is not enough for them!!
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17358-hidden-cancer-threat-to...
NO DISCUSSION POINTS:
- Whether we used to be frugivores or ominvores in the past, seems not to be a usefull argument by me.
Our knowledge about food has changed so much since the past, so does our culture.
Relying on the past, is more believing than knowing.
I think the presence should have more weight , the past is gone and with it a big part of the
evidence.
Also, when there should be proof for a specific diet in the past, this doesn't say that our bodies and our circumstances, how they are at this time, NOW, would trive with that same diet.
* To be continued....
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by telefunken on -
Mark said: Truth is whatever is. You knew that right?
-------------------------
No, never hear that definition. Can you give one example?
Maybe you'd simply agree with this definition of truth?
-
Permalink Reply by telefunken on
-
OK...the reason I'm interested in your definition of truth is that when you say things like "belief is not truth" or similar, and you don't provide specifics about what it is you are claiming to be unassailably true....it's impossible to get your point.
For me, truth is a pursuit; it's dynamic. But, I'm always interested how others can see it as a static destination.
-
Permalink Reply by Mark on -
It is a static destination, but it is so great that the journey will last until the end, so in practice it is a pursuit, but that is only from our limited viewpoint. Belief is not truth. It could be if what one believes is true, but it isn't necessarily so especially on this dark world.
-
Permalink Reply by telefunken on
-
Mark said: It is a static destination, but it is so great that the journey will last until the end, so in practice it is a pursuit, but that is only from our limited viewpoint. Belief is not truth. It could be if what one believes is true, but it isn't necessarily so especially on this dark world.
-----------------------------------
That truth is a "static destination" is an example of your belief in action. Ultimate static truth, if their is such a thing, can't help you today unless you claim to know it today. But you are "in pursuit" .....as you say...so it can't be known yet....right? If you do know it, and claim it as the ultimate guide, and claim we all need to know it, shouldn't you be willing and able to state this truth?
There is no use in static truth. Unless you convince yourself you know what it is and build your beliefs and actions around it. Problem is, you never know if the new information, you must reject to sustain the "belief", may have been truly useful. It's the religion trap. Belief in static truth is also a trap.
What really matters though is the truth or belief that a person is aware of and what action they take based on it. This depends on the size of their world and their willingness to jettison previous beliefs when new or conflicting information arrives. Sadly, it's clearly possible and common to find those who refuse to allow new (and especially conflicting) information to challenge and affect their lives. Their beliefs have become their truths and so guide their actions. (usually to the determent of growth)
Today's truth in most cases is undone by tomorrow's discovery.
Change is one of the few constants we can observe. Those who embrace it are better served.
-
Permalink Reply by Rebeka on -
I'm a vegatarian and I don't feel astounding. I don't think diet is an end all cure when trees are being killed every day. Where is our oxygen? If we don't have oxygen then we can't live and that might be one of the most important foods of all!
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Permalink Reply by yoda on -
I hope this thread gets to stay here, it's got some interesting information.
-
Permalink Reply by Burke Bryant on -
It will, I deleted the other on my own accord.
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