vegan decides to add some animal foods (not buying the spiritual argument; she seeks more nutrients)

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Permalink Reply by Rawstrength on November 11, 2009 at 9:10am

Perhaps you're allergic to hens' eggs? Many people are. Have you tried duck or goose eggs?

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Permalink Reply by Rawgreengoddess on November 11, 2009 at 6:05am

Finn,i have learned never to say never :)

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Permalink Reply by telefunken on November 11, 2009 at 9:01am

that's an important lesson for us "middle-agers" (ooopps....I said it!)

Seriously though, anyone who would have heard me rant about the perfection of vegetarianism, in my early 20's, would be shocked to hear me temper my rhetoric, now, after 20 years of experience. Back then, I'd look at my current approach as insincere or noncommittal, etc. But, after what I've experienced and learned since then, I'm very thankful to have released the idealism in favor of the effective and practical. I have given myself permission to consider all sides now. Very freeing and "results driven" instead of idealistic / dogmatic.

So, yah...."never say never" is cliche, but also very sound advice to anyone who thinks they know, not only what is "right" now, but also dares to proclaim what paths they will walk in the future. The future must arrive before we assume our place in it. The flexibility to change course is available to us, if we allow it to be.

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Permalink Reply by Rawgreengoddess on November 11, 2009 at 3:25pm

Yes Tele...well i think you are just lovely,now i didnt know you then..but you are rockn it now..you said the M word you bad bad boi....drop and give me 20 pushups now!! bad bad bad....tsk tsk!

I have learned the hard way with not being flexible in my life approach and not just with eating,its constricting its limiting and its freakn annoying to be around,lol(and interestingly i no longer get a stiff neck nor neck pain ,connection??)
...so going for the less annoying approach these days lol~~ and striving for my very best and always listening to my body,thats what counts for me...raw vegan is my way right now...if i ever started looking at raw milk or cheese with longing then i know i am missing something.so far it hasnt happened!

allowing the flow of life to naturally happen,to be kind and loving to others,give others all teh chances in the world,but knowing where there is a point to walk away,thats important...ahhh off on a tangent...see thats what flow of life will do he he

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Permalink Reply by Asiris on November 10, 2009 at 9:37pm

Well including these foods will give you a lot more options in food choices (and so you can be more picky in food quality) and it will increase your dietary variety which maximizes the chances of having a well-rounded nutrient intake... and eggs are pretty cheap... and kefir and seafood and others, they are very filling and makes for a happy tummy =) same goes with foods you steam or cook, like sweet potatoes... dirt cheap and so filling-

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Permalink Reply by Travis on November 10, 2009 at 10:41pm

i don't believe everyone has to eat animal products. i mean people live as vegetarians all their lives and not all of them are deficient. look at freelea and harley. they are kicking butt without animal products on fruit and greens and it clearly is working for them maybe not everyone else.
since removing animal products from my diet i'm at a point in my life where i've never been healthier also. besides if i wanted to eat meat i couldn't afford organic free range animal products anyway.

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Permalink Reply by AwesomeUniverse!!! on November 10, 2009 at 10:46pm

Brian Clement hasn't had meat or animal products in over 30 years and he is doing excellent!

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Permalink Reply by Travis on November 10, 2009 at 11:06pm

yup. i mean i've heard of people who genuinely can't do without animal products it seems like and their hair falls out doing raw till they have salmon and they get better. sure i'll give them that. i now don't really care if people eat more ethical free range grass fed organic beef ect because i realise that everyone is truly different. i mean some people swear by atkins, paleo diets, pritkins, 811 and all do great on them. and there's that swimmer in america who eats the crappest food i've ever seen. to me i'd just like people to accept that people don't have to eat animal products if they don't want and people can if they want.

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Permalink Reply by Rawzilla on November 10, 2009 at 11:26pm

The thing is, Travis, there aren't any well-documented thriving vegan communities on the planet. I understand your reasoning, but that is just the reality. We know of people who tried to remain vegan, such as Gandhi, but who got quite sick until animal protein was reintroduced.

Something that I think is missing in a lot of these discussions, something that often stands out for me, is what it means to say someone is "thriving" on certain diets. There are two issues. One is that lots of people "thrive" on diets and lifestyles that are known to be unhealthful, such as smoking or eating SAD; that is to say they get by to an old age without too much trouble. Don't we all know some family members or at least know of some people who lived into their 90s on crappy food and so on? I certainly do. The other issue is that most raw vegans haven't been on any of these diets for a lifetime--we're not seeing any multi-generational results here; in fact, we're not even seeing one full generation yet.

Another issue is that there is a lot of dishonesty in the raw food community. I don't assume every "guru" is walking the talk. But that's up to you to consider.

We can go into a lab and stare at micro- and macronutrients and list all the ones we need until the cows come home, so to speak. But meanwhile, in the real world, in nature, another reality is taking place.

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Permalink Reply by Travis on November 10, 2009 at 11:59pm

i would argue that freelea and harley are thriving on these diets. also there's markus rockranthz and alot of others who eat simple raw food and aren't going downhill by any means. yeah there's not vegan communities but there is a history of vegetarians. in japan, india and china. shaolin monks. yes they do have milk i suppose but still there not eating meat. also why is it some people seem to be in much BETTER health without meat also? i know of many long term vegetarians at least twenty years or more who are just fine. and you make the point people can smoke and drink and live to their nineties well then why can't people do that without meat?

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Permalink Reply by Rawzilla on November 11, 2009 at 12:10am

Oh, I definitely think vegetarianism is healthy for many. No argument there. I'm only talking about veganism.

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Permalink Reply by Travis on November 11, 2009 at 12:15am

is it mainly the b12 thing with veganism? sorry hope i'm not coming across argumentative but i just personally don't get the whole nutrition argument though. like protein iron calcium ect, all easily obtainable on a good vegan diet. i mean i still have milk products that are organic and cheese but i don't know if i honestly need them but i admit they would help with b12. but in terms of protein ect, iron minerals ect i feel i'm getting that mostly from the part of my diet that is raw and vegan. i just also feel like there are some people who really are kicking ass on raw vegan and aren't going to run into some deficiency in the future.

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