The Real Scam -- Care to Follow Durianrider Off a Cliff?
So how bad do you want to be in denial? How much will you grasp to dogma, not facing the truth that we do so much to harm ourselves?
We rarely listen to our bodies, instead we get whisked away by "gurus" or charismatic people who are the farthest thing from those who bare the truth.
Most of these ego-maniacal know-it-alls are full of it. Not sure about that? Want to know how a strict vegan diet can deplete your body of B12? Read about our friend Harley, aka Durianrider.
From http://health.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=695434:
...remember, Harley completely cuts out anything to do with animal products and relies purely on raw fruit, veggies and nuts. His results have got Susie really worried: "My biggest concern is that your vitamin B12 is one of the lowest clinical levels we have ever seen!"
Harley's B12 was just 78. That's drastically lower than the normal intake range from 145 to 637 and means our vegan could be susceptible to anemia, blurry vision and loss of feeling in the hands and feet in the long term. "In the case of vegans, it's really up to them if they decide to supplement with B12. It is primarily from animal-based food so it's probably worth him discussing it with his GP or medical specialist," says Susie.
Still sure that a diet that you NEED to supplement is the best one for humans? Hmm..... it seems that the DR's take on the 80/10/10 is one of the biggest scams. Follow DR to illness if you like, it's your choice.
What do you have to lose, besides your teeth? Oh yes..., poor vision, no feeling in your hands, and anemia. Oh, to dogma!
We rarely listen to our bodies, instead we get whisked away by "gurus" or charismatic people who are the farthest thing from those who bare the truth.
Most of these ego-maniacal know-it-alls are full of it. Not sure about that? Want to know how a strict vegan diet can deplete your body of B12? Read about our friend Harley, aka Durianrider.
From http://health.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=695434:
...remember, Harley completely cuts out anything to do with animal products and relies purely on raw fruit, veggies and nuts. His results have got Susie really worried: "My biggest concern is that your vitamin B12 is one of the lowest clinical levels we have ever seen!"
Harley's B12 was just 78. That's drastically lower than the normal intake range from 145 to 637 and means our vegan could be susceptible to anemia, blurry vision and loss of feeling in the hands and feet in the long term. "In the case of vegans, it's really up to them if they decide to supplement with B12. It is primarily from animal-based food so it's probably worth him discussing it with his GP or medical specialist," says Susie.
Still sure that a diet that you NEED to supplement is the best one for humans? Hmm..... it seems that the DR's take on the 80/10/10 is one of the biggest scams. Follow DR to illness if you like, it's your choice.
What do you have to lose, besides your teeth? Oh yes..., poor vision, no feeling in your hands, and anemia. Oh, to dogma!
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Mellifera on -
Maybe DR's b12 corrected because of his relationship....
But it is possible to have issues without overt symptoms.
"Generous folate intake by health-conscious veg-
ans prevents easy detection of pernicious anemia, with
the first signs of vitamin B12 deficiency being neurological...
Cobalamin deficiency may take many years to develop
symptoms, as many authors state, but metabolic evidence
of insufficiency can be detected with the urinary MMA
assay within a few years of ceasing cobalamin consump-
tion. Our results indicate that shortly after ceasing intake
of vitamin B12, its metabolism is unfavorably altered by
the lack of B12 a"
Metabolic Vitamin B12 Status on a Mostly Raw
Vegan Diet with Follow-Up Using Tablets,
Nutritional Yeast, or Probiotic Supplements from the Journal Annals of Nutrition and Metabolism
There are all kinds of wrong things going on in our bodies without us noticing..neurological symptoms are very hard to pick up on especially given the ranges in humans temperment and personality.
But I will concede that it's possible that a healthy bowel produces it, they just haven't been able to prove it yet.
"More study is needed to determine whether a
population of bowel flora could be maintained in adult
subjects that continually produces enough cobalamin to
satisfy nutritional requirements."
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Permalink Reply by Rawzilla on -
Liz,
There are just as many meat eaters as vegans with B12 deficiency.
Can you provide some legitimate literature for that statement? I ask because it's not what is considered common knowledge, so you have to back it up for people to believe it. A body of literature, not just a random doctor or a raw vegan proponent (because I have seen those random comments thrown around but never anything legitimate documenting it).
Here is what the science looks like to me--I'll limit it to a few. I won't post the case histories too, where people describe what happened to families and their children or "gurus," although there are plenty to read about online. And let me repeat that I agree that even meat eaters can have the deficiency, but the risk is lower. And, actually, if you have candidiasis, B12 absorption is compromised. And fruit is a factor candidiasis.
Functional Vitamin B12 Deficiency and Determination of Holotranscobalamin in Populations at Risk.
http://www.webmd.com/diet/news/20030618/vegetarian-diet-b12-deficiency
Dietary deficiency of vitamin B12 due to vegetarianism is increasing and causes hyperhomocysteinemia.
http://arjournals.annualreviews.org/doi/abs/10.1146/annurev.nutr.24...
Physicians should be alert to the necessity for vitamin B12 supplementation for strict vegetarians, who eat no meat, fish, eggs, or dairy products.
http://cpj.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/26/12/662
Vegetarian Diet and B12 Deficiency: Vitamin B12 Deficiency Seen in All Types of Vegetarians
June 18, 2003 -- Researchers have long known that a strict vegetarian diet -- one that excludes all animal products -- can lead to vitamin B-12 deficiency, and possibly heart disease. Now, new research suggests that even those who follow a more lenient vegetarian diet are also at risk.
http://www.webmd.com/diet/news/20030618/vegetarian-diet-b12-deficiency
In the longitudinal study, six of nine vegans showed slow, but consistent deterioration of vitamin B-12 status over a 2-y observation period. On the basis of these results we conclude that some seaweeds consumed in large amounts can supply adequate amounts of bioavailable vitamin B-12. However, the average use of seaweeds and fermented foods by "living food eaters" will not supply enough vitamin B-12 to maintain the body vitamin B-12 status.
http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/abstract/125/10/2511
A 7-month-old male presented with lethargy and failure to thrive. The child was exclusively breast-fed from birth by a mother who was a strict vegetarian. Laboratory data revealed macrocytic anemia and methylmalonic acid in the urine, consistent with vitamin B12 deficient anemia. The patient responded well to supplementation with B12 alone and was developmentally normal by 11 months of age. This study emphasizes the need for assuring maternal dietary adequacy during pregnancy and after birth.
http://cpj.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/25/4/219
The authors present a case of severe megaloblastic anemia and neurologic damage due to vitamin B12 deficiency in a 6-month-old infant. The cause of the vitamin deficiency was a maternal dietary deficiency because of a strict vegetarian diet and prolonged breast-feeding. The importance of early recognition of significant maternal vitamin B12 deficiency during pregnancy and lactation in vegetarians is emphasized so that appropriate supplementation can be given and irreversible neurologic damage in the infant prevented.
http://grande.nal.usda.gov/ibids/index.php?mode2=detail&origin=...
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Permalink Reply by Cam on -
Liz,
I think we can all agree that some people some of the time will show signs to be B12 deficient. If in emergency circumstances B12 is needed then by all means supplement for a while until your levels are stable/healthy. Then try going without the supplement and see how you do.
If there are signs of B12 deficiency then take some B12 for a week and see if it helps. If it is in fact a deficiency you will see a remarkable change in your health relatively quickly. If not then you know it wasn't a B12 deficiency and something else.
The goal isn't to prevent disease or deficiency by supplementation. The goal is to live as healthy as possible so you don't need to take supplements.
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Permalink Reply by Mellifera on
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If you have symptoms, permanent neurological damage might have already occurred. I think this is a good time to remind people to look up the actual science and not necessarily follow what some dude on a forum says.
It's like playing with fire...I think everyone should get tested. I eat insects and fish and I get tested for B12 issues along with other things. The issue is complex, but why risk it.
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Permalink Reply by Lizz on -
I dont take supplements, never have. As I said I have been vegan for over 6 years, raw vegan over 5, and I experience no signs of any deficiency in anything, either in symptoms or in blood tests. In short, I am a thriving raw vegan.
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Permalink Reply by Cam on
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I'm just curious to know how many people have been reported to have these "permanent neurological" damages due to B12 deficiency. Of all the studies I have read the claims say that B12 may lead to permanent neurological damage and usually way before that there would be clear symptoms.
Anyone have some literature on this? I would like to read more.
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Permalink Reply by Cam on
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I've read 10 and still found nothing that shows conclusively that b12 was the cause of any permanent neurological damage in an otherwise healthy person. In all of the cases there were some other deficiencies that could have contributed to the disease. Maybe you've got a few credible articles up your sleeve.
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Permalink Reply by Mellifera on
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b12 is related to many other nutrients and chemicals in the body. It's pretty unlikely that a b12 deficient person is going to be otherwise healthy. I think you can narrow the search down if you add the words irreversible or permanent. But really...any neurological damage sucks....why risk it?
more
more
more
None of the people in these articles were vegan, which really underscores why testing is important.
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Permalink Reply by ben "the beekeeper" stiller on -
that's great!
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Permalink Reply by Lizz on
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Okay.
Doctor Nancy Lonsdorf MD, from John Hopkins Univ. states in her article on B12 that 40 percent of Americans have a B12 deficiency. She also states that people with fortified diets show higher B12 levels than any other population. She also states that eating meat does not prevent B12 deficiency and that many vegans and lacto ovo vegetarians dont develop the deficiency. Doctor Lonsdorf received her M.D. from Johns Hopkins and did her post-graduate training at Stanford University. She is one of America's foremost clinical authorities on natural medicine for the prevention and treatment of disease. Dr. Lonsdorf has 17 years of clinical experience with over 15,000 patient visits during that time. Her practice is based on Maharishi Ayurveda-the revival of the authentic practice of the world's oldest and most comprehensive system of natural medicine.
Louise Chang, MD, another doctor from Stanford has also declared that B12 deficiency in more rampant in populations that engage in actions that deplete B12 from the body, one of the most common being the consumption of prescription drugs, and most notably type 2 Diabetes drugs.
I could continue with many more examples of the scientific community declaring how B12 deficiency plagues many populations, and that it is still inconclusive if consumption of B12 containing foods is entirely the control factor in assimilation of B12. Diet is only one factor in achieving health. When it comes to finicky B12, it seems if we look at the facts there are many factor that cause or prevent us from assimilation of B12. These problems effect everyone, vegans and non vegans. A vegan diet is not a cuse of B12 deficiency, but a lifestyle that deplets B12, and does not support proper assimilation does. What all these lifestyle factors are, is still undetermined, but scientists do know a few. The B12 Myth with Vegans has long been debunked, and it is only the stone age or capitalist scientists and nutritionist that still cling to myth, usually to sell their supplements or other mojo. In fact, aside from the claims by the mainstream medical community that B12 deficiency is found in just as many non vegans and non vegans (which actually is common knowledge in the nutritional medical community, despite your claims of the contrary) in my own personal experience I have known just as many omnivores (most raw paleo and cooked) with B12 problems, as I have known vegans with B12 problems, As we speak my omnivore friend Veronica, still goes to the doctor to get B12 shots, and she eats steak weekly. Believe what you want to believe. Everyone does. Everyone wants to support his or her own ego affirming belief system, but as I stand here, a non supplementing long term vegan, without deficiency I call bullshit, to those who insist that I will.
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Difus...
Hi family.
I've been eating 100% raw for the past 40 days. Before that, I was about 70% raw for a few years, and I struggled with bulimia (purging the cooked food that I ate).
No purging, no cooked food for 40 days. My cheeks are slightly puffy ...
Thats great news Rama. I am glad the Univ of Hyderabad has yoga programs in their curriculum. Does that department have a website?
yeahboye
ooo! how long you been fasting? and how long had you been raw before you got down with the juice xD?
ox
Awesome.
me too, i still love dates covered in tahini though.
im confused. matt monarch swears by regular colonic hydrotherapy. its his no.1 raw tip, didn't think it could be dangerous but now it kind of makes sense. enemas seem much more natural in comparison.
I've heard great, great things about Living Light Culinary Arts Institute in Fort Bragg, CA. I know that isn't really in the Los Angeles area, but it's still in CA and I believe they provide students the option to stay in their 'Living Light Inn'....
The way I see it is that generally people who label themselves are confident of the path they have chosen while,also generally, people don't don't label aren't quite as sure if what they're following is the right way to go.
hi hitesh,
how are you
if yoga is practiced regularly then it's not difficult to achieve flexibility, yep i can share the knowledge with you that I got from the university, don't worry about it
oh yeah she is married :(
lol
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