Is there anyone on this site who is pro vaccine?

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Permalink Reply by Barron on October 22, 2009 at 10:46pm

Nope, sorry, can't help ya there! ;-)

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Permalink Reply by C. B. Alien Worshipper on November 3, 2009 at 2:23pm

I would be interested in hearing your thesis

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Permalink Reply by C. B. Alien Worshipper on November 4, 2009 at 3:29pm

While I do not intend this as a blabla, im just a bit surprised Lizz that someone with such strong sentiments for animals is positive to the idea of injecting something full of dead animals (especially since it's not only utterly useless but extremely harmful aswell, just a sidenote though since this discussion is not supposed to be about this fact).

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Permalink Reply by Lizz on November 4, 2009 at 7:05pm

technically they vaccines themselves do not contain animal products, but they are grown on animal products. I didn;'t say I thought vaccines were vegan, they certainly are not, but I am an ethical vegan not a health one, per se. I could be able to say that I think that certain vaccines can be helpful in the world, while also saying that the means of obtaining them are unethical.

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Permalink Reply by alex anthony on November 4, 2009 at 4:00pm

i am selectively pro vaccine. the thing about those who are anti vaccine is that they assume that their children don't get sick and therefore made the right decision to not vaccinate. that isn't wholly accurate as they are protected by herd immunity - i.e. all the other children are vaccinated and therefore there is no one around the unvaccinated child to deliver infection. so even when you don't vaccinate - you're protected by vaccinations.

the thing about thimerosal in vaccinations is absurd and borders on ridiculous. there is more mercury in a serving of fish and there is definitely more mercury in sea vegetables like kelp, etc. in fact marine biologists determine the spread of heavy metal contamination in oceans by testing sea vegetables because like all greens - they are strong metal chelators.

the primary concern with vaccinations and potential brain insult/injury has less to do with mercury - in fact nothing to do with mercury and has to do with temperature modulation. parents are told that their primary responsibility after a child receives vaccinations is temperature modulation. the kid will develop a fever - your job as a parent is to keep it from gettign too high at all costs until the fever passes. extremely high temepratures in childhood are associated with developmental delay and this is not debatable. so i contend that if a parent isn't ready to micromanage a child's temeprature post vaccination then do not let them get them. if you are a micromanagin parent who can be sure that you'll modulate the kid's temperature then vaccinations (major ones like pertussis, hepatitis, etc.) are strongly encouraged.

we live in a spoiled society because we don't see children with dark yellow eyes and failing livers from hepatitis when you take your kid to school. or a kid in a wheelchair (or grave) from meningitis. the reason you don't see this every day is because of generations of vaccinations before you. go anywhere in the world where vaccinations are not routine and you see disabled/critically damaged children EVERYWHERE.

I'm opposed to things like the flu vaccine and that hpv vaccine for girls. that to me is profiteering as neither are useful to healthy individuals.

like most things in life - an extreme approach (exclusively pro or exclusively anti) is almost always wrong. pure conservatives are wrong - pure liberals are wrong. pure capitalists are wrong - pure communists are wrong. pure anything is wrong as life just doesn't work that way. evolution teaches that overspecialization breeds weakness. life is more complex and to me the best parents make smart decisions about which vaccinations their children should or shouldn't have.

if you travel abroad with your children especially to places with no vaccination protocol vaccination is even more important - i've heard of children dying after contracting xy or z from vacation.

it's a touchy issue - and i don't mean to insult anyone or step on toes. if i have i apologize in advance.

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Permalink Reply by Travis on November 4, 2009 at 4:11pm

good post.

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Permalink Reply by C. B. Alien Worshipper on November 4, 2009 at 5:17pm

Alex, the only basis here for why vaccinations are sometimes helpful seems to be the idea that "infection", virus whatever can be spread from one person to another, which is simply not true. When we come to the realisation of this fact, we will also realize how utterly stupid even the basic idea of vaccines are.

extremely high temepratures in childhood are associated with developmental delay and this is not debatable.

Ok not debatable?

Regarding why people in certain nations suffers from the various diseases you mention, consider this...could it simply be the fact that in parts of this world were people can't even afford vaccines economically (they are blessed in that sense), there might be and always are other factors at hand which are much more likely to cause the symptoms and various diseases they are experience like limited access to natural requirements such as clean water, decent food, non-polluted air and a life where they do not have to work their asses of like slaves???

To make the assumption that these people, these nations, are suffering from the symptoms/diseases you are mentioning because they're not having access to vaccine is in my personal view a totally illogical assumption/conclusion whatever and makes very little sense.

Then regarding what is in the vaccine. First it's not only the mercury that is a problem, basically it's every single ingrediens in a vaccine which does not belong inside the body and do great harm always, and never under any circumstance does it assist the body in any good way whatsoever. This shit is then injected straight into the bloodstream, without passing through the bodys natural defense, meaning the body is pretty much unable to even slightly protect itself from the injection itself.

Also what you say about extremism, yes most times it may not be helpful to take a static position which could be regarded as extreme (by some people, as we all know this is relative), but you do agree there are some cases where it seems quite sensible to take this position, no? heavy drugs?... mass-murder?... rape? sadistic torture of children? does these phenomenas also fall under the "middle way"? Same goes for vaccines.

It is unfortunate you know, when crucial practices like these are based on medical myths and dogmas, because it does affect and does great harm even to those who are not old enough to be able to choose for themselves. And people who lives under the superstition of diseases as contagious will like at some level advocate things which does affect other people negatively and will eventually lead to a situation where people advocate sick ideas like more or less forced vaccinations in a possible future "to not pose danger to other people". It's mad enough as it is right now.

if you travel abroad with your children especially to places with no vaccination protocol vaccination is even more important - i've heard of children dying after contracting xy or z from vacation.

When conclusion are being made about the cause of death in cases like these, conclusions are based on medical myths/assumptions/false beliefs and so on..a fundamental misinterpretation of the very basic conditions of nature, which makes conclusions such as these totally distorted and untrue.

Love and peace XX

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Permalink Reply by Barron on November 4, 2009 at 7:24pm

Alex said;"....... the thing about thimerosal in vaccinations is absurd and borders on ridiculous....."

Robert Kennedy Exposes Thimerosal In Vaccines (Mercury)
http://vodpod.com/watch/1891841-robert-kennedy-exposes-thimerosal-i...

or read this:
Deadly Immunity
Robert F. Kennedy Jr. investigates the government cover-up of a mercury/autism scandal

ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR.Posted Jun 20, 2005 12:00 AM
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/7395411/deadly_immunity/

In June 2000, a group of top government scientists and health officials gathered for a meeting at the isolated Simpsonwood conference center in Norcross, Georgia. Convened by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the meeting was held at this Methodist retreat center, nestled in wooded farmland next to the Chattahoochee River, to ensure complete secrecy. The agency had issued no public announcement of the session -- only private invitations to fifty-two attendees. There were high-level officials from the CDC and the Food and Drug Administration, the top vaccine specialist from the World Health Organization in Geneva and representatives of every major vaccine manufacturer, including GlaxoSmithKline, Merck, Wyeth and Aventis Pasteur. All of the scientific data under discussion, CDC officials repeatedly reminded the participants, was strictly "embargoed." There would be no making photocopies of documents, no taking papers with them when they left.

The federal officials and industry representatives had assembled to discuss a disturbing new study that raised alarming questions about the safety of a host of common childhood vaccines administered to infants and young children. According to a CDC epidemiologist named Tom Verstraeten, who had analyzed the agency's massive database containing the medical records of 100,000 children, a mercury-based preservative in the vaccines -- thimerosal -- appeared to be responsible for a dramatic increase in autism and a host of other neurological disorders among children. "I was actually stunned by what I saw," Verstraeten told those assembled at Simpsonwood, citing the staggering number of earlier studies that indicate a link between thimerosal and speech delays, attention-deficit disorder, hyperactivity and autism. Since 1991, when the CDC and the FDA had recommended that three additional vaccines laced with the preservative be given to extremely young infants -- in one case, within hours of birth -- the estimated number of cases of autism had increased fifteenfold, from one in every 2,500 children to one in 166 children.

Even for scientists and doctors accustomed to confronting issues of life and death, the findings were frightening. "You can play with this all you want," Dr. Bill Weil, a consultant for the American Academy of Pediatrics, told the group. The results "are statistically significant." Dr. Richard Johnston, an immunologist and pediatrician from the University of Colorado whose grandson had been born early on the morning of the meeting's first day, was even more alarmed. "My gut feeling?" he said. "Forgive this personal comment -- I do not want my grandson to get a thimerosal-containing vaccine until we know better what is going on."

rest of article at above link.....

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Permalink Reply by Barron on November 4, 2009 at 7:49pm

Vaccines cause autism: Supporting evidence
NaturalNews) Rates of autism have skyrocketed 1000% since 1990, yet defenders of vaccines and the pharmaceutical industry keep scratching their heads in confusion: What could be causing this? Lots of clues point to vaccines as one of the primary contributing factors to increased rates of autism.

In this article, we present supporting quotes from some of the industry's top authors who write about the possible links between autism and vaccines. Enjoy this collection of research.

Autism and vaccines
There is also a strong connection between all forms of vaccinations and autism. A U.S. study found that children who received vaccines containing a preservative called thimerosal, which is almost 50 percent mercury, were more than twice as likely to develop autism than children who did not. Although mercury has been removed from regular childhood vaccines due to growing safety worries, it is still present in other vaccines children might get.
- Toxic Overload: A Doctor's Plan for Combating the Illnesses Caused by Chemicals in Our Foods, Our Homes, and Our Medicine Cabinets by Dr. Paula Baillie-Hamilton

Every year more and more children are being diagnosed with learning disabilities and autism. What is the cause? According to many experts, including Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., a senior attorney for the Natural Resources Defense Council and author of Deadly Immunity, our government is to blame. There's growing evidence that shows that a drug called thimerosal is to blame. This drug is found in vaccines. The fact is the more vaccines kids get, the more autism, learning disabilities, and lifelong illness develops. The drug thimerosal is a preservative that was put in vaccines back in the 1930s.
- More Natural Cures Revealed: Previously Censored Brand Name Products That Cure Disease by Kevin Trudeau

Autism is a catastrophic epidemic with an increase of 1,500% in the UK in the last decade. In California one in 150 children is autistic - a 54% increase in just 2001/2! The primary causes of autism known to come from vaccines, maternal overexposure to heavy metals and antibiotics, heavy metals from industry pollution of the air and water, and the chemicals used in the electronics industry. Significantly, the first cases of autism were described in the US shortly after the vaccines for whooping cough were introduced in the 1940s.
- Dispatches From the War Zone of Environmental Health by Helke Ferrie

Could the number of vaccines now recommended actually be contributing to the rise in children's chronic diseases like asthma, allergies, autism, autoimmune disease, diabetes, obesity, some cancers, and the growing epidemic of developmental disorders? Remember, in just twenty-four years, we've gone from fewer than ten vaccines to fifty vaccines, and there are more on the way. As the childhood health crisis worsens, more and more parents, and physicians, are starting to question the effect these vaccines might be having on our children's developing immune systems.
- Growing Up Green: Baby and Child Care: Volume 2 in the Bestselling Green This! Series (Green This!) by Deirdre Imus

Mercury toxicity is a suspected cause of a steep rise - a tenfold increase between 1984 and 1994 - in diagnosed cases of autism in children around the world, according to some scientists. Specifically, the culprit is thimerosal, a mercury-based compound used as a preservative in vaccines commonly administered to babies and infants. Thimerosal-free vaccines are available. If you have a child who will be receiving vaccinations, ask for and make sure thimerosal-free vaccines are used.

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Permalink Reply by alex anthony on November 4, 2009 at 8:05pm

how do you account for the low rate of autism (but rising) in japan - where they consume the most fish and sea vegetables per capita in the entire world. in fact there is low incidence of autism in aleutian populations as well - despite fish being a staple of their food supply.

this means their food supply is loaded with mercury.

you ignored the fact that i posted that there is more mercury in a mouthful of kelp than in ten vaccinations. you posted information that is now considered outdated and useless. even the autism foundation has moved away from the autism/thimerosal link.

the reason autism is rising in the US and Japan and in other places is is independent of vaccinations. it's simple. autism rates rise as parents get older. the age of parents is progressively getting older as populations become more urban. the bigger the cities, the older people wait until they have children. they accrue genetic damage that reaches the germ line and the genetic damage reaches the baby. in fact the correlation between parental age and autism is the strongest of all - but no one wants to talk about it because it's easier to have an external boogieman than to resolve that you the individual is responsible for your child's condition. and yes fertility drugs are part of the culprit.

japan has the oldest average population in the world and they are having children older - and despite having a low autism rate (which is counterintuitive since they eat the most seafood) their rates are rising because they are having children older.

I WILL REPEATE FOR THE NINTH TIME.... there is more mercury in a mouthful of kelp than in ten vaccinations. if mercury were the cause of autism then all of japan and the entire aleutian population would be autistic assuming mercury/autism to be dose dependent.

please explain this or accept that your position on vaccination is a belief and not science.

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Permalink Reply by Lizz on November 4, 2009 at 8:46pm

not to mention that there isn't even mercury in the mmr vaccines in the states or uk anymore, and autism rates have not changed.

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Permalink Reply by alex anthony on November 4, 2009 at 8:57pm

thank you, lizz.

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