Is it possible to gain weight eating 80/10/10

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Freelee on October 28, 2009 at 6:05am

I always find It funny how eating fruits & greens (which is wholefood from nature) is seen as 'extreme' but having a nasty pipe shoved up ya butt, eating sludge off the bottom of the ocean, munching on deer antler & then having to rejuvaclense as a result is normal & acceptable!!!:DDD

Yes I agree Cheryl focus on health as it is our number 1 wealth! What we put in we get out :)

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Vampirella on October 29, 2009 at 9:58pm

SO wherever I am doing at that is right for me.

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Freelee on October 30, 2009 at 11:40pm

Hi Rawz,

I can't seem to respond directly under your post so i'll do it here...

thanks for the links...

I am suprised peeps are still quoting Weston A Price, he was debunked long ago, evidence is all over the net.... you can read here....deadly diet myths & here.....Fanciful Folklore is not science...& here....

Weston A Price Foundation recommendations are just plain dangerous, even the first comment I read from the SciencebasedMedicine link you provided me with put it nicely:

Harriet,

I’d be extremely cautious linking to any Weston A Price Foundation article on grounds that they give a credible critical review of any piece of scientific (or pseudo-scientific, for that matter) literature.

Weston A Price is deemed a questionable dentist and the Weston A Price Foundation is deemed a questionable resource of health information by Quackwatch.

Their agenda is to propagate, among other things, the claim that a high-fat diet with plenty of full-fat, pastured-fed muscle and organ meats and lots and lots of raw, full-fat dairy will produce optimal health and cure many chronic diseases.

Keeping their agenda in mind, it’s no wonder that they have an article vociferously arguing against the China Study, which purports the same outcome as their advocated diet, but in a somewhat diametrical manner.

Actually, since you seem to dive into utter nonsense–I say that in a good way…we need someone to trudge through the extraordinary diet claims–, you should critique the insanity over at the Weston A Price Foundation (WAPF). It’s a thorough philosophy, which can keep you busy for a long time, and it also tries to look somewhat scientific in its articles, citing rather obscure and out-of-date sources (I know, a hallmark of quackery). Most WAPF claims are diet- or health-related, making this water I think you’d be most appropriate treading.

Thanks for the link to Erins comment. Eating that way long term leads to Ketoacidosis , here is lots of info on the dangers of a low carb diet
Dangers of eating low carb diets

Fruit is the ideal food - Fruits the ideal food


But hey after all this science is said & done, the best proof is in the pudding! I recommend peeps eat a 100% rawfood diet if they want to experience optimal health not a cooked food diet like yourself... this isn't 'Give it to me Cooked' is it? :DD

Yes I am familiar with Ghandi's story & he underate accompanied with too much fasting hence not meeting his physiological requirements, That's why I recommend peeps eat lots!! NO deprivation here!

Humanity doesn't know how to eat properly & this is why we have wars, hunger, disease, the monetary system, environmental destruction & the general sadness experienced by most peeps on a regular basis...

There is no tribes that have been documented eating a 100% rawfood diet because history records don't go back that far but we know today that a 100% rawfood diet is best for human health, don't we??? Or are we disputing that too?
like i said that's why i recommend 100% rawfood, just like David Wolfe quoted ....'Cooked food is poison'.


The peeps who say they are succeeding on a high fat diet are generally having stimulants of some sort, I know a guy who eats high fat & without fail needs his 4 cups of coffee daily to keep him going . Cacao is also a well-documented stimulant & neurotoxin which i would be highly wary of....

Peeps eating meat & dairy are getting massive doses of adrenaline & this is giving them 'false energy' which they mistake for vitality but this 'high' is always short-lived. If I coached these peeps in a low fat raw vegan lifestyle they would then realize how good they could feel.

This is sooo much documentation about the bodymind requiring large quantities of glucose to thrive , just google it & read 811.

I could go on forever quoting scientific studies but I have to run 4 websites so my time is spread thinly, all I can say is try a LFRV lifestyle properly for an EXTENDED period of time & see how you feel! but do it 100% & longer than a few weeks!!!!!

LFRV is the only diet you don't need any supplements, tools etc...show me another diet like this?

Anyways life outside awaits after this friendly debate....

Lovefreelee

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by YogaBrudder on October 31, 2009 at 12:02am

Interesting about Weston A. Price. I was listening to Daniel Vitalis Elixir Craft today. He says one of his favorite books is by Weston Price, Nutrition and Physical Degeneration, seems Mr. Price, a dentist, studied numerous cultures for years, noticing the effects of nutrition.

Everyone's got their opinion.

Many think theirs is the only correct one.

Sad.

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Freelee on October 31, 2009 at 2:45am

Here are some recommendations from the Weston Price Camp.....I guess peeps can make up their own mind....

They promote a range of irresponsible and potentially dangerous ideas, including:

*Butter and butter oil are our “super foods” which contain the “X factor”, discovered by Weston Price.
*Glandular Organ Extracts – to promote health and healing of the corresponding organ.
*Poached brains of animals should be added to other ground meats for better nutrition
*Raw cows milk and meat broth should be fed to newborns who don’t breast feed, rather than infant formula.
*Regular ingestion of clay (Azolimite Mineral Powder) because the clay particles remove pathogens from the body.
*There are benefits of feeding sea salt to infants and babies
*Fruits and vegetables should be limited in children’s diets.

but eating just fruits & greens is extreeeeme!!

...scary

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Travis on October 31, 2009 at 4:24am

that is some very scary stuff!! apparently they put kids in a cage with lots of food and they all went for fruit. fruit is great for children since it's easy to digest. even most mainstream child nutritionists recommend adding meat later.

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by cindy on November 3, 2009 at 5:07am

oooohh ohhh what about urine therapy!!!!

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Rawzilla on October 31, 2009 at 11:28am

The proof is in the pudding. Well, now, that's my point.

There have been too many high-fruit disasters reported on this site (and to Durian Rider's videos in the comments section) to count. I have heard a few doctors discuss such disasters. And I experienced it myself. I met others here who went through indescribable illness from 811. I won't name names, but if you are not familiar with any, then you haven't frequented this site much in the past year.

A number of us found our way to ancient, time-honored healing traditions and healed.

Among us are many who tried LFRV for a long time, and it simply did not support our health. The FRUIT was the worst! You can just search this site--even discussions that are up now about how fruit feeds candidiasis. There is so much out there about teeth rotting, panic attacks, acne, bloating, and more. And I'm talking about the trigger being the high-fruit diet. That is consistent with the body of literature on candidiasis, which I recommend you familiarizing yourself with, if you are actually giving dietary advice to people. Even if you want to refute it, you should get acquainted with the literature.

Thankfully, anyway, we've moved on and found safe, healing diets.

It is also nice to find the diets we are on supported in leading literature and in the oldest, healthiest communities on the planet.

You can promote eating 811 on all the websites you want. You can state your theories about why there are no thriving, old raw vegan communities because of lack of documentation--and present it all as fact and then go on to urge people to each a bunch of fruit. There are also lots of websites insisting how safe and effective vaccines are. But the problem is you have to keep sweeping the bodies under the rug.

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Erin on October 31, 2009 at 12:55pm

The proof is in the pudding. I personally have 5 friends who got very sick on LFRV. Funny- they all consistently got better when they cut the sugar and upped the fat and protein. I notice patterns.

Even though I don't believe all of the WAP's dietary recommendations (which are actually somewhat different that Dr. Prices own recommendations), people are healing by incorporating those principles. People are healing their teeth on those evil grass-fed dairy products, LOL!

I wish people would do a little research and see that maybe most of what they've been indoctrinated about regarding fat (esp. saturated) is just pure propaganda from the AMA and the food lobbies. I think we all owe it to ourselves to at least study broadly across the board, otherwise we risk selective fact-finding, tunnel vision and narrow mindsets.

If anyone is interested in doing some studying, here are some books worth reading (besides Weston Price's book (don't bash it till you've read it):
Primal Body, Primal Mind by Nora Gegaudas (very raw-friendly)
The Primal Blueprint by Mark Sesson
The Schawrtzbein Principle by Diana Schwartzbein
Cure Tooth decay by Ramiel Nagel

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Freelee on October 31, 2009 at 8:05pm

Thanks Erin have you read 811? ( i would suggest you don't bash it until u do!:-)

You say your friends got 'sick' on LFRV? What does that mean??
What 'style' of 811 were they doing? There is many different interpretations of a LFRV lifestyle,, many peeps do it incorrectly & then shout from the rooftops 'I did 811 & it didn't work!' when the whole time they were doing their own version of 811....does that make sense? I have friends that said they were doing 811 & were actually eating chicken!!!
My goal is to assist peeps in doing it correctly, I would appreciate details to back up your claims please :)

I will look into your book recommendations thankyou, oh but hang on are they rawfood books? Because if not they are totally invalid to this discussion... I don't believe eating cooked food is healthy & that's why im posting on a rawfood site.

Ok onto saturated fat, low carb diets & health.....It's not difficult to discredit I must say
Just look around at the size & health of the population, these peeps are eating lots of saturated fat & at least 450,000 peeps die every year from heart disease, what is the biggest factor in these deaths? Saturated fat.
I'm actually very suprised that you would belief it is healthy?!?! But then again I used to follow Metabolic-typing/Dr mercola/WAP/Atkins style before & got VERY sick, pimply,lethargic,depressed.....if you would like more details I am happy to share everything about how I did this high fat low energy diet....There's a guy who is popular amongst the mainstream Gyms - Paul Chek, you may know him? He is a WAP fan, i followed his WAP recommendations & nearly lost my sanity. He has great exercise recommendations though.


I have had much experience with low carb (ketogenic) diets, I have been a professional in the health & fitness industry most of my life, i have seen these fad diets come & go, they then re-emerge with a new title!. Low carb diets deplete the healthy glycogen (the storage form of glucose) stores in your muscles and liver & what happens when you deplete glycogen stores? you also become dehydrated, which results in the number on the scales dropping considerably in the first couple of weeks of the diet.

Peeps who are uninformed will usually interpret this as fat loss but it's actually dehydration and muscle loss, as the muscles need sufficient glucose to maintain themselves. Time & time again I see this being the main reason that low carb diets can gain so much popularity - yes there will be a quick drop in weight but its always short-lived.

Just a note - Glycogenesis (which is the formation of glycogen) happens in the liver and muscles when adequate quantities of carbohydrates are consumed - very little of this happens on a low carb diet. Glycogenolysis (breakdown of glycogen) occurs when glycogen is broken down to form glucose for use as fuel.

It is unhealthy to let your muscle atrophy because it lowers your metabolism which always eventually leads to weight gain. As soon as you begin comsuming more carbs again (which is impossible not do do) you regain the lost fluid.

There are literally oodles & oodles of research over decades that proves scientifically & experientially without a question of doubt that if you increase your consumption of animal products and/or saturated fat you significantly increase the risk of heart disease, strokes, gall stones, kidney stones, arthritic symptoms, certain cancers...the list is so long...

Another thing to remember is that for fat to burn efficiently and without production of excess toxic ketones, sufficient carbohydrate must be available! Its just how the body works!. Ketosis can also lead to many health problems and can be very serious.

plus I wouldn't want anyone to got through the bad breath, bad teeth & smelly bowel movements that I had when I went on that diet, please ask me details IM happy to share!

Not to mention that every plant-based food has fibre. All animal products have no fibre. What happens when you have a lack of fiber in your diet?? It increases your risk of cancers of the digestive track (because the time it takes to go through is lengthened) & cardiovascular disease (because of fibres effect on fat and cholesterol). Also many peeps become constipated & suffer from other bowel disorders.

811 is created by nature & all the rest of these diets by ego & to sell supplements & justify our bad dietary choices..., LFRV is the model found in nature & without the need of a flame, 100% raw, its very beautiful.

It's important to learn about basic physiology before we take on what these fad diets recommend.

Erin how long have been doing this diet for?

Lovefree

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Erin on October 31, 2009 at 9:14pm

I've only read part of the book, so I won't claim to have read the whole book. Doug's explanation of how our cells run on glucose is over simplified and isn't in step with more recent longevity research. When you fuel your cells on sugar, you always do it at the expense of longevity. You always create oxidation and AGE's. There just isn't a way around it. This is how our body works. Sugars and the glycation resulting from them takes a direct toll on the brain. There is no circumventing this side effect.
http://ajp.amjpathol.org/cgi/content/full/153/4/1149

Also, Doug doesn't address the fact that the main known marker for longevity (among humans and animals) is low lifetime insulin output. The less insulin your body has to make, the longer you are likely to live. That's just not going to happen on a high sugar diet. I've seen others here asking the question "Where are the really old fruitarians/811'ers/even raw vegans?" and I believe this partly answers that question.

As for ketosis, if you look in textbooks on physical biochemistry, you will see that a certain range of ketosis is normal and is not dangerous. Many of our tissues (the brain and skeletal muscle included) prefer to run on ketones. I addressed this recently in another thread. Ketoacidosis and ketosis are two different things. When you hear about dangerous metabolic states, you are hearing about ketoacidosis, not ketosis. If you'd like to better understand the difference, here's an article:
http://barnson.org/node/1773

Free- one huge difference between the way I eat and the average low carb diet is that I don't do high protein and I do eat a bit f fruit. I guarantee that the people you encountered were doing high protein, as that seems to be the fad in the fitness world.

There is no lack of fiber in my diet, as I eat a lot of very fibrous veggies and chia:) I've been doing it several months. I don't at all advocate WAP because I think it's excessive in dairy and many don't tolerate dairy. WAP also advocates grains; Paleo does not. WAP diets tend to be a lot higher in protein than the body requires.

As for my friends who got very sick, some were not following 811 but two were doing it strictly by the book, to the letter. They both ended up very emotionally unstable and and extremely adrenally fatigued.
One chose to do the Primal Diet (Aadjonus' diet) and improved greatly, his mood stabilizing and his skin clearing.
The other (who, frankly, has more raw experience than all of us put together, LOL!) has been long-term raw and grew up Natural Hygiene and macrobiotic, and has eaten EXTREMELY clean her entire life- a rare person, indeed! Not to mention that she extensively studies nutrition on a level that few do.

She fully understood 811 and how to follow it and she gave it over 6 months (by Doug's book- not her own version!) and only got worse and worse. She started feeling depressed and fatigued all the time. Her digestion worsened to the point she had to only eat mono meals. She started having skin issues for the first time.
She finally had tests done and found that she was severely lacking in protein and fatty acids. You really can't refute her tests and you can't claim it was all detox. This woman was very clean to begin with.
Anyway, she is the one who introduced me to Ice Age Paleo, which is a very reasonable way to eat. It is high veggie, a bit of fruit and moderate protein (45-55 gms- just enough for muscle repair). It is higher in fat than the average diet. I have found it very easy on my body and my skin loves it. So do my adrenals.

As for the muscle issue, my muscle is in much better condition now. I can build muscle much more quickly. There is no atrophy going on. I did have atrophy when I was raw vegan, though. If you think low carb people only lose water weight and have muscle atrophy, I suggest you take a look at Mark Sisson, a very fit and young looking 55 year-old who coaches others on fitness and eating this way.
If you look at some of his success stories, you can see people listing their body fat %'s before and after. What you claim doesn't hold water (no pun intended, lol!)
http://primalblueprint.com/

I just want people to know that there is a lot of research not being talked about on these forums and a lot of info circulating that is outdated and dis-proven. I want them to know their options. I understand that you sincerely want to help people follow a program that works for you, but why do you always disbelieve the experience of others?

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Erin on October 31, 2009 at 10:28pm

Thanks, el-bo! I very much appreciate your kind words;-) I'm kind of burnt out on the subject at this point. I'll have to see if I'm up for it, LOL! I just wanted to add my own experience and some info I thought was fascinating that seems to bear out my experience;)

▶ Reply to This

• First
• Previous
• Next
• Last