Raising Kids Raw

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Permalink Reply by Mandy on September 22, 2008 at 7:49pm

But it's not about voting!! It's not about being cool or courageous or anything else! It's about doing what is the absolute best for your child and not taking risks with their health!

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Permalink Reply by Tierra on September 23, 2008 at 4:12am

hmm I am speaking as a now 26 year old who was brought up on about 60% raw food in addition to slow-cooked whole grains, legumes, and steamed vegetables. I didn't taste honey until I was about 6 and never tasted commercial sugar until I was about 7, other than natural sugar from fruits. When I was 8 my mum put us kids on an all-raw diet but after 5-6 months we developed dark circles under our eyes, so she took us off immediately. This was with dark leafy green and all veg- juices daily, huge salads, nut milks, low fruit, etc. Who knows why? There are so many suggestions I could make...genetics, age, specific deficiencies....but in the end going back to a macrobiotic diet reversed the dark circles immediately. We were bright kids, part of GATE, etc. So no stunted growth. But we were not 100% raw.

I think about this a lot and I believe in the end kids should be encouraged to identify with their instincts... I know of a french instincto family in Ecuador that have brought their kids up in the wilderness eating raw since birth. When they go to friends houses with 'normal' foods they are given free-rein to try what they like, and since they have such highly-developed instincts, they often don't take more than a couple of bites of cooked food since they find it doesn't resonate with their body. These kids are not only intelligent and healthy, but after one was run over by a car (yes, there are cars in the high jungle) the doctors were astonished by the rapid tissue and bone repair he showed. However they are instincto ( I am not pro raw meat).

I would probably offer small amounts of simple steamed veggies and complex grains to my kids in addition to a high-raw lifestyle... I know there is a lot of debate as to whether grain is a 'people' food, but civilizations have thrived on grains such as quinoa. Also I wonder about the nutritional benefit of foods we would not NORMALLY eat raw (I know some of you wild ones out there do eat raw potatoes and such!) - like artichoke, kidney beans, asparagus, yams, etc. These are nutritionally dense foods that prepared the right way can offer unique properties.

So... i think this is a very sensitive subject....because you are making life decisions for a life outside of yourself. I guess the best you can do is observe carefully, and any deficiencies should be shown rapidly, as in my case.

Best of luck to you!

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Permalink Reply by Mica on September 23, 2008 at 6:01am

Some kids maybe, my daughter doesn't copy me unfortunately, she will take advice and is very open lo learn about her body and nutrition but she doesn't like and won't eat Bananas, Celery, green leafy vegetables, plums, avocado....There is other stuff too but these are all things I personally eat loads of and there is always a packed fruit bowl in our living room.
She still has a fair bit of other fruit like apples, grapes, berries and maybe mango etc and she will eat raw carrot, cucumber and tomato but that's kinda where it ends.
If that would be all she would get she'd get super deficient and pissed of with me probably for denying her other foods she wants lol
I tried to put her on an all fruit day recently because she had funny tummy, man she got so angry haha

I think more could be done but it's certainly not easy, especially in an urban environment. You have to find ways to feed them well and sometimes that means to be creative.
Maybe using super foods, green powders, blending things up so they don't know it's there.
like she will have a banana nut milk shake but it has to taste just right for her to drink it.

And if she will eat a raw pizza that has a face on it to make it more attractive for her, so be it, great!
It's still loads better than other food she could be getting..........
I don't thing anyone knows what it takes to raise kids healthfully and successfully till they are doing it themselves to be honest.......;)

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Permalink Reply by Mica on September 23, 2008 at 8:00am

Very true thanks!!.....:)

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Permalink Reply by Damon Bailey on September 23, 2008 at 1:35pm

I think that the emphasis on 100% raw vegan and the stress that comes with that is probably more detrimental to the well being of these children than what actually constitutes their diets.
I can speak from experience when I say that in most cases it is best to let the child come to conclusions about their diet naturally. Any external pressure usually has achieved the undesired result more often than the desired one. I think the best possible way to influence your child's diet is by the way the parent exhibits eating. The child is after all, a metaphorical sponge of information for its first 5 years and does not necessarily draw conclusions based on logic about things such as eating but establishes ground truths and baseline references towards acceptable behaviors through the transference of these types of energies.
I have three girls all under the age of 5. The youngest is 5 months old is breast fed primarily by my wife who is raw vegan. Sometimes when milk is low or we need extensions we supplement young coconut water in a glass bottle. She responds extremely well to the coconut water showing incredible alertness and awareness. It was a difficult step for us to even try because there is so much influence in our circles in the direction of milk, rice cereal, baby foods, and formula. However the first hand knowledge is extremely empowering. Seeing the effect of natural food on my child has only reinforced my faith in real food.
Her older sister is turning 2 in October and she was raised from infancy on canned formula. This was during a period where we were more comfortable listening to others tell us what was right than finding the information for ourselves. Instead of weaning her onto cow's milk, however, we started giving her almond mylk and macademia mylk. Her first solid foods were bell peppers, avocados, blended greens, fermented raw chocolate and other superfoods, and berries. (Frozen bell pepper slices, BTW, are excellent for teething stages). She is now at a point where people will try to give her junk/cooked/low-vibe foods and more often than not she will opt out. Unless its meat or something that is heavily dairy we don't intervene because we know that her body is smarter than our conscious mind could ever aspire to be. Everyday she surprises us with her cravings and I enjoy sitting down with her and sharing what I eat and seeing her love it. I'd been told by my uncle who has cheffed for The Olympic Country Club, The Ritz (San Francisco), MGM Grand (Las Vegas), that babies had certain flavors that they would or would not be attracted to. However I still have yet to see Cadence shy from eating anything raw. I could load an avocado with curry, salt, cayenne, coriander, and dulse flakes and she would devour it and ask for more.
I think what gets people stressed is there dependence on objective standards set by so-called authorities. Its best to let the child experience as much as possible within the spectrum of what is reasonably safe and approach these circumstances with faith that the child's body is a very adept and powerful vessel.
My oldest daughter is from a previous relationship and her mother does not keep a raw kitchen however she is aware of the power of live nutrition. She is simply in a place where, given her surroundings it seems less stressful to feed the child what is around. And ultimately I can't blame her. The only way I myself have been successful with whole raw foods is by surrounding myself with that consciousness. I think everyone would agree that this is a huge shift from the old paradigm that in many cases can mean the exclusion of unsupportive friends, family members and other influences.
My oldest still gets a nice dose of great food but in order to provide her with a supportive environment (i.e. one where her parents don't argue constantly about food choice) I have to simply nurture her and have faith in what I've seen that everyone is simply where they are at and eventually she'll see just as I have that the food provided by earth is superior in all forms to the food assembled by man. Its just going to take time. I didn't make the shift until I was 23 years old. And I'm going to live to be 250. So at the age of 4 I think she's going to be okay.
The only goal of a relationship is to nurture. Spouse, Relative, Friend, Child. Support is key!
The whole emphasis on fitting into a category is ultimately causing the confusion surrounding this issue. Love and Thanks.

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Permalink Reply by Mica on September 23, 2008 at 2:03pm

YES, I can totally relate to all of this!
Your kids are very lucky to have you!!

There is so much more to a happy childhood than the perfect food but many other factors to take into consideration but you said it all already and very beautifully......:)

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Permalink Reply by Courtney on September 23, 2008 at 3:24pm

I was wondering too why Shazzie says that HEALTHY raw vegan kids need to be supplemented with Vitamins K2, D, B12, etc., and then says that Storm and Jinjee's kids aren't raw vegan because they eat honey. But honey doesn't provide any of those nutrients (not in sufficient quantities)...so am I missing something here....? The Gardendiet kids all seem very healthy and look great to me, but maybe Shazzie thinks they should be healthier....?? Though the thing that makes me wonder whether the Gardendiet kids weren't quite in top health at least at some point in the past was this line in the email from Jinjee's email announcing the Gardendiet's 5 guides: "In the past two years we have fine tuned the diet for our children to a degree where they are all now meeting the growth chart standards".

To be clear, I say this in the interests of learning how we as the raw community can best feed our kids (not to start gossip), so I'm wondering what things are essential or not essential for raising kids, and what we can learn from others like Shazzie and Jinjee. Also, I'd be curious to know what more specifically Shazzie says in "Evie's Kitchen" and Jinjee says in "The Five Guides".

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Permalink Reply by Damon Bailey on September 23, 2008 at 3:40pm

Well honey is not a vegan food because it comes from bees which violates the "vegan" concept. So by strict definition they aren't vegans even if they eat raw honey. Honey does have a history of being a highly medicinal food whether vegan or not. And I've spoken to beekeepers who insist that taking honey from bees is totally respectful to their hive as long as they are left with plenty to get through the winter.
I too am interested in how we can best feed our kids but I think that it has to be looked at in a subjective manner...such as "How can I best feed MY children?" vs. "How can WE best feed OUR children?" I think that I'd rather experiment with suggestion and find out first hand then chase other people's literary guesses. That's what it comes down to. There is no real way to measure who's kids are healthier. So in my mind, that doesn't matter. What matters is how healthy I feel my kids are. Does this make sense?

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Permalink Reply by Anne on September 23, 2008 at 3:38pm

Dear Mandy,
I believe that raising children as well as being a very , very special thing is also a very personal one.
We all want what is best for our loved ones.
So I can only say, that a 100% raw vegan (fruitarian) diet has worked very well for me personally; in the raising of my two children.
My elder boy was on a fruitarian diet from birth to age 14; he is now 17.
He saw a state nutritionist when he was about seven years old, who analysed his diet. The results were that apart from B12 being negligible(according to their beliefs) and his Calcium being only 70% of the R.D.A., everything else in his diet met their standards. Bear in mind that these standards are R.D.A's for people on a 'normal' diet.
Regarding the Calcium, I believe that people on a standard diet require a lot more Calcium, because animal protein leaches Calcium from the body.
At age 17, he is 5'10", has never had a filling (he sees a dentist regularly) and is fit and healthy; so I strongly doubt that he ever has been Calcium deficient.

My younger child has also had excellent health on a fruit diet. He is four years old, can write his name, knows his numbers up to 100 and has plenty of energy(but not the hyper kind) from dawn til dusk.
So personally, for my children the fruit diet has worked very well indeed.
I would say that I have been very fortunate in having access to great quality fruit. wild, organic, and locally grown has always been a large part of our daily diet.

I wish you all the best , when you have wee ones of your own.
It is really a very personal thing and just as it is your own body that knows what is best for it, so I believe that each person needs to make their own informed decision, when it comes to child raising.
Sharing your life with kids is the best fun too!
Love and peace,
from Anne.
The photo is of of Cappi, my younger child, enjoying Jackfruit under the tree it came from.

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Permalink Reply by Courtney on September 23, 2008 at 3:50pm

Hey Damon: I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that there's only one way, rather that I'm hoping to learn from others. You are right: we need to ask how we can best care for our own kids.


(P.S. I know honey isn't vegan :)--I don't eat it myself--I was just saying how I didn't see how only adding honey (a non-vegan food) would provide the nutrients that Shazzie says are lacking in the raw vegan diet.)

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Permalink Reply by Tierra on September 23, 2008 at 4:14pm

Anne - what a beautiful child!

Buddhababy - I thought I was pretty old-school but I guess you beat me! ;) Yeah it is rare - I was always the weird kid who ate seaweed and 'grass' at school, and had the strange mum who would smile at the sun (for vit D) and clap in the corners of rooms to remove stagnant energy. It was normal for us.

Though I think my mum was maybe too strict - we were not ALLOWED anything processed or sweet- not even those appetizing carob-almond globs they would sell in the bulk bins of the health stores. I wanted one so badly!

Also she had such a fine-tuned feeding process - fresh juice or fruit was served 20 before a cooked grain for breakfast (to allow for the fruit to be digested first), water was only allowed 20 min before a meal (to not dilute enzymes) and salad HAD to be the first thing eaten to stimulate enzyme activity! Not too many nightshade vegetables, not too much carrot juice because of the sugar content... I could go on and on! But I am thankful now for it . :) I probably wouldn't be the same without it.

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Permalink Reply by Tierra on September 23, 2008 at 5:03pm

that's awesome! long live the family chain! my mom was the first but definitely took the fanatacism just as far!

Yeah, she's take me out of school early to go to the kinesiologist ! Haha ..there are so many funny stories when you are brought up this way. Got to love it though. It'll be nice when its not fanatacism and just normal though ;)

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