Obama/McCain - Doesn't Matter Who Wins - Both will push agenda for big business

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Permalink Reply by Glen Colello on August 25, 2008 at 7:41pm

pssst..... WAKE UP!
raw NOT war
The Same overall OB may be a little less open to war
but .........

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Permalink Reply by Kumara on August 25, 2008 at 9:26pm

Quite frankly I don't think either candidate will provide much of a change at all. It seems that most of the things out of their mouths aren't really about providing a better future for human beings..I get sickened and frustrated by it all. Where are the candidates that care about keeping our food supply natural and free from chemicals and frankenfoods, improving our health by supporting natural medicine, our planet, our brotherhood of other humans? I personally don't believe that enough of the people in power care about these important issues..Why are innocent people being killed over oil? Why has america been a party in causing so much killing? Honestly it's sickening to me. I would like to see our whole governmental system stripped down and restructured with no more bullshit. Power to the people and viva the revolution down with corruption, greed and killing of innocent beings! P.S. Let's impeach the worst president in history..a truly corrupt cretin!

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Permalink Reply by Jen on August 30, 2008 at 5:47pm

Now we have Palin to worry about...She is

1) against abortion, EVEN in cases of rape and incest.
2) pushing for off-shore drilling.
3) completely inexperienced in foreign affairs.
4) in bed with BP. (Did I mention her push for off-shore drilling?)

It is very important here to distinguish for potential voters the difference between being a woman and being woman-friendly. Palin's gender is a non-issue since she is effectively anti-woman in every important way. Hopefully, swing voters will see through this obvious instance of tokenism.

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Permalink Reply by Kumara on August 30, 2008 at 6:00pm

I completely agree Jen..It seems as though he picked a woman in hopes of getting the disenfranchised Hillary supporters. But Hillary supporters aren't buying this phony glass ceiling bullshit. We need a woman that supports our rights and unfortunately, republicans and John Mc Cain haven't proven it. How lame is it that Mc Cain has never supported equal pay for equal work, and then he expects us to believe he is pro woman. They are trying to overturn Roe vs Wade..WTF?

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Permalink Reply by Erin on August 30, 2008 at 6:05pm

I think McCain's bigger motivation for his VP pick is to better connect with the conservative Christian-Right. Palin is very popular with them already, whereas McCain isn't. This helps them have less reservations and feel and better about voting for him. I wish they'd realize that it's a marketing tactic!

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Permalink Reply by Jen on August 30, 2008 at 6:15pm

Yes, both of these aspects are scary. If he gets in it only takes one more vote to overturn Roe v. Wade. I think a LOT of people just don't want to face that fact because it is too scary. Not to draw on an over-dramatic parallel, but this is similar to the situation of Jews in pre-World War II Germany. When asked after the war why many of them did not flee the country, they said it was because they could not imagine that, "This (genocide) could ever happen here." People want to believe that ultimately there is some kind of safe-guard in our civilization that will prevent the passing of draconian laws and the occurrence of human rights atrocities. There seems to be a prevalent subconscious confidence that there is always "someone looking out for us." Those of us who have studied political science and history of course know this is not true. The hard part is convincing the rest of (unread, TV-watching) America that there is no such safe-guard in place, and that WE have to be the safe-guards.

Another example is the example of the Innocent Bystander. If a person walks down the street and sees a stroke victim surrounded by a crowd, he or she will be far less likely to call 911 than if he or she is the ONLY person to witness the victim.

The stroke victim, of course, is American democracy.
.

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Permalink Reply by Rebecca on August 30, 2008 at 8:53pm

How about the genocide of abortion? I want to be one to stand in the gap to look out for the 3,700 lives ended each day... I want to be the one on the phone for them when everyone of gathered around watching.

What is it with this choice thing? I mean seriously. No one has the right to do what is wrong. That is not a right than anyone has.. can we do things that are wrong yes but how can we have the right to do them. As a nation we have just come out of discrimination based on race. Now we have discrimination on the basis of age.. Saying:"I'm older than you, I'm bigger than you, I have a voice - therefore I can kill you."

I totally feel like I understand where you are coming from but I totally don't understand at the same time. I see that you want freedom for Americans.. I do too! but this includes the unborn much like slaves and much like Jews who didn't have a voice who no one stood up for. I mean good gosh.. people smelled the smells of burning bodies and just ignored it... people lived right by the train tracks where they hauled dying Jews in freight cars and most people just ignored it..

Should one have the right to own another? that's what legal abortion is saying.. It's a parallel to slavery.

It's not even remotely healthy either. I want for women to be happy and healthy and vibrant and alive! I want for woman to be loved and supported and empowered. I want to be one to love and support women and that doesn't include supporting abortion for me. I want to support unborn women too.

Women under age 18 who had an induced abortion have an increased breast cancer risk of 150%.
Women of age 30 and above who aborted a first pregnancy increase their breast cancer risk by 110%.
Overall, women who have an induced abortion have an increased breast cancer risk of 50%.
Black women of age 50 and above who had at least 1 induced abortion have an increased breast cancer risk of 370%.

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Permalink Reply by Jen on August 30, 2008 at 9:03pm

There is NO scientific link between abortion and breast cancer. I would love to know where you found these numbers.

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Permalink Reply by Jen on August 30, 2008 at 9:23pm

By 2003, the National Cancer Institute concluded that, "Having an abortion or miscarriage does not increase a woman's subsequent risk of developing breast cancer."

National Cancer Institute Fact Sheet, "Abortion, Miscarriage, and Breast Cancer," March 21, 2003, at http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Risk/abortion-miscarriage

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Permalink Reply by Jen on August 30, 2008 at 9:33pm

The website you link to above is maintained by a pro-life group, Heritage House. If you read the information on the site with an objective frame of mind, the anti-choice bias is apparent. If you want to believe the information on that site, be my guest. Just know that the arguments are religiously-based, not scientifically-based. I prefer to defer to the National Institute of Health, a scientifically-sound governmental organization without any religious agenda.

Permalink Reply by Rebecca on August 31, 2008 at 1:26am

Thanks for the info, good to know!

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Permalink Reply by Sara on August 30, 2008 at 9:30pm

How interesting..at what point do we justify the taking of a life? At what point do we consider something living? This is a very interesting "raw" discussion. Its true, many vegans are pro-choice, so theyre against slaughter of animals for food(considered murder), however abortion is not considered murder, or the considered murder is justified. What about war? Are our justifications for the taking of a life rooted in society evolved from religion, or do we just tweak them to our convenience? What if we kill by accident, i could unknowingly step on ten ants on the way to my car. sorry im off the politics, but this discussion brought up an excellent point.

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