Fruit or Fat? + The problem with quinoa, black beans, brown rice?

In my search for an optimum diet I'm gravitating more and more to raw. I've been raw for extended stretches but am still having a few stumbling blocks between where I'm at and 100% raw. The biggest one is this. I'm a pretty active, on-the-go guy and seem to need (and do best with) a reasonably high caloric intake. When I've experimented with all-raw it seems like I can only really do it on either a high-fat or high-fruit diet. There just aren't enough calories in raw vegetables.

However, based on all my studies of nutrition (I've read 100s of books by now) I don't think either a high-fat or high-fruit diet is optimal. So that I'm trying to figure out where that leaves me.

It brings me to some other foods that I've generally regarded as being nutritious, namely quinoa, black beans, brown rice, soba noodles, etc. However, while I'm sure sprouting them is a possibility(?) given that I don't have all day to spend on diet I'm not sure that's practical.

So what I'm wondering is...

#1 - Given that it's tough to get to my desired caloric intake on purely raw food, does it make sense to have 20-30% of my diet be foods like quinoa, brown rice, etc. I'd keep 70-80% raw but this would allow me to also keep my fruit and fat intake lower.

#2 - Am I missing something here? Many of you have been raw for a long time. How have you solved it? Most of the recipes in raw cookbooks are super high in fat as are a lot of the dishes at the popular raw restaurants. High fruit seems like an alternative (80-10-10 anyone?) but I'm concerned about high sugar content (even if it's natural), candida, etc.

This seems like the final frontier for me. In other words, if I can crack this nut (no pun intended) then I think I can do the raw vegan thing. But at the same time I get a little discouraged when it seems like neither of the two options are all that healthy.

Thoughts?

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Hilary Baumann on May 11, 2008 at 7:56pm: I think some of what is being discussed here may be affected by the individual's needs. I've been testing starches recently (I'm not 100% raw btw) and I'm beginning to think I personally might have a sensitivity to starches instead of wheat or gluten (not an outright allergy though.) I'm still tinkering around with this and finding out what makes me feel bad (and I don't mean detox bad.)

There's also the issue of fermentation and sprouting that can be factored in. Grains supposedly have a toxicity to them if they are not sprouted which is what I think Baraka is talking about (Nourishing Traditions is the book I think that has the information about this - yet another food book for ya but it's not a raw only book.)

One of my issues with the 100% raw diet is this idea that "it's perfect for everyone no matter what." I think people need to also listen to their bodies and what they feel like they need. And what they need may change over time. Several people mention this in relationship to fat but I also think it could be that some people need to not dive into the 100% raw or that some people may never feel well on 100% raw even transitioning into it. I feel like I say this over and over but there is just SO much talk of the perfect diet and 100% raw here that I think sometimes people are only expressing what works for them and not thinking that anyone could be any different from them.

I AM here to learn, I love hearing what other people think and I love reading the recipes and thoughts on food here and what works various people because there is something to gain from other people's experiences. Just sometimes I think people are a little too hung up on there being only one way of eating.

It's all about feeling and being healthier right?

Sounds like you might need to prep some things while your at home for when you are traveling ... a dehydrator might be your new best friend. Crackers, dehydrated fruit (which would be high calorie but also high sugar content), sprouted wheat berry tortillas maybe? Then again, maybe the black beans are what your body needs right now.

Just my 2 cents... :); ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by nycgrrl on June 11, 2008 at 4:14pm: I love this response!; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Hilary Baumann on May 11, 2008 at 9:24pm: Oooo, the sprouts with spices dehydrated I hadn't heard of before and that sounds really good!; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Jon Bischke on May 11, 2008 at 9:26pm: thanks hilary and pink lady. any particular resources you'd recommend for sprouting?; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Hilary Baumann on May 11, 2008 at 11:18pm: Thanks for putting the idea out there then. I made a spice mix the other night that I think would be perfect to try.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Hilary Baumann on May 11, 2008 at 11:12pm

http://living-foods.com/articles/sprouting.html
http://hippocratesgreenhouse.com/Quickstart/ImageLib/Sprout_Chart_2...
http://sproutman.com
http://www.Sproutpeople.com which Pink Lady Apple already mentioned
... plus I have a pdf with a couple of sprouting charts. I don't know where I got them from or else I would just reference the resources.

As far as where I buy my seeds or grouts - the local co-op grocery is where I usually get them at the moment. They have big bins of seeds and grains and such. If you start eating them a lot there might be places online that sell them cheaper but I found it's a good way to sample and find out what I like before I go looking to buy a bunch of something.

Attachments:

sprouts1.pdf, 340 KB

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Permalink Reply by Jon Bischke on May 11, 2008 at 11:13pm: @Pink Lady - Thanks for info on sproutpeople. I'll check that out.

@Baraka - Yeah, the more I study the more I seem to align with Jameth. Having said that I always like to keep an open mind and keep researching Next week I may be somewhere else entirely! :); ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by bitt on May 11, 2008 at 11:14pm: i have to say i was eating a diet based on brown rice, potatoes, lentils, beans, quinoa prior to going raw and i was very sick. now, it could have been what i was NOT eating versus what I was. i obviously haven't done a controlled study and don't care to on myself. i do think everybody is different. so keep that in mind, Jon.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Jon Bischke on May 11, 2008 at 11:18pm: Valid point. From reading Butenko and others it seems like if you weren't doing greens, etc. it's very likely that any diet could make you sick. What I'm thinking right now is a diet something along the lines of 25/25/25/25 where 25% of calories come from greens, 25% come from fruit, 25% come from fat and 25% come from stuff like quinoa, buckwheat, etc. Now I could make this a totally raw diet but sprouting the quinoa and buckwheat but until I figure out how to do that I may simply continue to cook them. We'll see where this leads!; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Cinnamon Girl on May 12, 2008 at 7:18am: sprouting buckwheat is easy. infact you can just soak it overnight and rinse it and it's ready. if you want to sprout it, rinse it through a seive. i then place it in a plastic bag, so it doesn't dry out. rinse twice a day, until it sprouts little tails.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EX__Tiq-dA

i don't like sprouted quinoa, but others do, so you might as well. same sprouting technique as above.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Jon Bischke on May 16, 2008 at 12:34am: Read 80/10/10 today. I gotta admit, it makes a lot of sense. Here are the remaining challenges I'd have on 811RV (I got the lingo down!).

#1 - I'm not sure it's healthiest for the brain. I've researched brain nutrition a lot (my family has a history of mental illness so this is an important subject to me) and just about every book I've read suggests that eating sufficient amounts of healthy fats (omega-3 and specifically DHA) is very, very important. My concern is that if 811 is causing harm to the brain (through insufficient consumption of healthy fats) then you might not know it until years later (it's not as obvious as a few pounds around the stomach or hips). Thoughts on this?

#2 - It pretty much rules out any form of social eating for the rest of my life. I eat out a lot for business and enjoy eating socially. 811 pretty much clears this off the table (with a few exception perhaps). I've found that veganism is very easy to accomodate most anywhere and raw, while more challenging, can be done (most places will serve you a raw salad). However, I can't imagine how someone could do a lot of eating socially and stick to 811 (unless you're eating a lot in advance of meals and then just munching a dry salad or something while eating out). Would love to hear how people have handled this?

#3 - The most compelling argument, in my mind, against a low-fat diet is to look at the proportion of fat in breast milk. The substance that's the most natural and the most healthy to consume when we're in the prime growth stage of our life is very high in fat. I'm trying to figure out why we need so much fat when we're an infant and then all of a sudden we're supposed to just switch to low fat. That's doesn't intuitively make a lot of sense to me. Looking forward to explanations. :)

811RV does have a lot of appeal to me though. Seems very simple and very natural. Makes a lot more sense health-wise than a very high fat diet (similar to that of many/most raw foodists) and also seems to travel pretty-well. So I'm buying it...to an extent. Would love to hear thoughts re #1-#3 above though!; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by nycgrrl on June 11, 2008 at 4:27pm: I don't buy it either--i suffer from depression so I am very careful about omega 3...otherwise i really love the diet, at least in the modified way I've been doing it--some flax seeds, quinoa, some lentils, but mostly fruit and greens.; ▶ Reply to This