Fruit or Fat? + The problem with quinoa, black beans, brown rice?

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Permalink Reply by Morn on July 24, 2008 at 5:47pm

I so feel your pain because I have 10 more pounds I would like to lose and keep off and I can't seem to do it eating a high-fat raw diet. I Have been raw 1 1/2 years+ and have bounced back and forth myself on these issues and am trying to find the right balance myself. I have been 100% raw, and right now I am high raw 95%. I exercise 4-5 times a week and have lost most of my weight (90 pounds) eating a high-fat raw diet but now have hit a wall and can't seem to lose weight unless I juice fast and then after I fast, the 10 pounds come back on. I have debated about going 80-10-10 but cutting out almost all the fat is way hard for me and I am not satisfied on fruit alone. Not only that but I have read that most fruit is very acidic in the body. I have also read about the importance of fat and its role and that eating the right fat is very important in buffering and neutralizing acid to protect our bodies from disease, etc.

Have you read The PH Miracle Book by Robert Young, PH.D.? He is a microbiologist and nutritionist. I just wondered because you said you have read a ton of books. His main emphasis is eating foods that are alkalizing to the body vs. foods that cause our systems to be acidic for overall Long-term health. He advocates that at least 80% of your diet should be raw but focuses more on the issue of Balancing your Body Chemistry by eating foods that are more alkaline and does include foods like you mentioned above in his book as part of His recommended diet. However eating this way is also hard on me because he does not recommend eating a lot of fruit because of its high sugar content and what sugar does to the body.

When you figure it out let me know cause so many of the "EXPERTS" out there are in conflct with one another and it drives me crazy. Bottom line is you need to do what works for you and your body. Some people achieve ultimate health by going 100% raw and can live that way others can't. I think it all depends upon ultimately what your goals are. Best wishes to you as you pursue health and happiness for you!

So my final thought to you is if eating brown rice, quinoa, and black beans occasionally keeps you raw otherwise and at the percentages you so desire (as far as keeping down your fat goes), perhaps 100% raw is not for you.

I struggle with the 100% raw thing myself as I sometimes feel like my body needs something a bit more filling.

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Permalink Reply by Morn on July 25, 2008 at 12:11am

Hey Suvine - I have looked at your profile and you are an extremely beautiful girl! I guess I am not totally following you on this thought. I would email you but I couldn't find your email address. Of course I am new to this site so I am still fiding my way around so maybe I missed it. Are you saying that perhaps I am not losing the weight due to the stress of it all or because I am still overeating? Anyway can you give me your email address. I would like to discuss this further. Thanks!

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Permalink Reply by Morn on July 27, 2008 at 12:28pm

I just emailed you. thanks

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Permalink Reply by VOID on July 24, 2008 at 6:37pm

Hey Sorry to hear you havent lost that last 10 lbs. But You're not likely to lose it eating 5% cooked. Fruit is not acidic in the body it is alkalising. Ph is dictated by the ash. You've read some nonsense if you think fruit is acidic. That is not a scientific finding. Nuts and seeds and oils as a source of fats however, they are, with a couple of exceptions, very acidic.

80-10-10 doesnt advocate no fat, only low fat, because you are right, it is ESSENTIAL to health. Providing you are eating enough calories, you will definately get enough fats even without overt-fats. 1/2 an avocado per day or 1 every few days is perfectly fine. Have you actually read the book? Its also not just fruit that he advocates but GREENS. lots and lots of greens.

If you dont want to cut out a high fat intake that is no longer working for you, then that is an addiction more than anything else. Addictions are signs that our emotional needs are not being met, that our life is bland. Make your life interesting enough that cutting out unhealthy amounts of fat isnt a problem for you because you gain so much pleasure from other areas of your life. Diet is a means to an end, a way to keep us alive and functioning and healthy. It is not life. It should never be something that is so important that we do not want to give something up. Thats a sign of something lacking in life.

If you struggle being 100% raw all the time because you need something more filling, AND you dont feel you can give up high fat, its VERY likely you are undereating on calories. When we do that, we go for the most dense sources we can find...fats and/or starches. If you consistently under-eat this is a sure fire way to prevent you losing weight as your body goes into starvation mode, holding onto anything it can get incase theres not enough food for a while.

I think its good to question, and to be concerned, but its not so good just to point blank not look into something based on misunderstandings of things you have previously learned. Especially if you have decided to start eating cooked foods because high fat raw doesnt work. You can't say eating 100% raw doesnt work if you have only tried one approach. Experiment. And read the book before making judgements, its illogical to say something cant work because you imagine it wont. Fantasies and worries are not necessarily linked to reality. :o)

Take Care

Adam x

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Permalink Reply by VOID on July 24, 2008 at 7:27pm

:o)

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Permalink Reply by Morn on July 25, 2008 at 1:26am

Thank you for your reply. I have Both the PH Miracle Book by Robert Young, PH.D. (who is a microbiologist and nutritionist) and Dr. Grahms 80-10-10 book. I wouldn't so quickly discredit someone else's work without reading it first. Again I will say they are 2 very qualified experts and from what I have read are at odds on the fruit/fat issue and what actually makes your body alkaline. Have you read both of the above? When I read so much conflicting information it just makes me more confused and frustrated and really not sure who to believe and what to follow. Truely I just want something that works for me that I can maintain and live with for life!

I won't say that I don't struggle with food addictions but I am not sure that this is the issue here. When I went raw I completely changed my lifestyle from a SAD diet and gave up all foods that were addictive to me. I went raw and for over a year I ate 100% and at one point hit a wall with weightloss. I then turned to cleanses and fasting and had some measure of success but I think as soon as I return to my raw diet with fats (which I am sure I eat too much of I gain the 10 pounds back (and possibly due to all the fasting my body reacts like it is in starvation mode). I do know what you mean about addictions cause I think that was why I was so overweight before - I was turning to food to fill the void in my life but I have stopped using food now and even though I am not perfect with my eating, at this point, it isn't a problem.

To me 80-10-10 is pretty complex and to follow it correctly takes a lot of tracking and effort to make sure you are eating within the ratios. It is not easy for me to figure it all out. I went raw to get healthy and because of the simplicity of the diet and not having to measure, weight, count calories, etc. When I first went raw I was following Alissa Cohen's advice about not worrying so much about what you eat as long as it was all raw. However, that only worked for so long and I know that I need to tweak my diet now so I can be at my optimal best (which I believe includes getting rid of and keeping off the last 10 pounds I want to lose). Also I am a person who eats a ton of salads and I can't see me eating salads without any dressings. What is it you eat on top of your salads? If I could get a hold of that with options that are actually viable to me I possibly could go 80-10-10 and give up on more of the fat. I am pretty much willing to try anything for awhile.

I eat very little cooked foods and not every day. (my cheats are occasional cooked hummus, green tea, and brown rice). I was hoping that I could find the ultimate answer that would take me to the next level with 80-10-10 but I don't have the time to track all of my calories, etc and I know that is important if I want to make sure I am eating enough calories, etc. (or even overeating on calories).

I guess nothing can be easy can it? If you really want anything it just takes a huge amount of effort, etc. Anyway thanks for the reply. I am not done experimenting - I am just a little frustrated and confused.

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Permalink Reply by Morn on July 25, 2008 at 2:57am

Ok Dude you are too funny! But I get your point. THe complex thing about 80-10-10 is in the tracking of it to make sure you are doing the ratios correctly and tracking calories. Of course since you have been doing this for awhile it is easy for you and you pretty much have it down. I however, don't know the first thing about how many calories are in a banana, etc and it will take a fair amount of effort on my part to get educated. But really in reality I just don't know if 80-10-10 is for me and if I could eat so much fruit. But like I said I am willing to give anything a try for awhile. WHat do I have to lose right - except for the darn 10 pounds I want to lose!

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Permalink Reply by Morn on July 25, 2008 at 12:32pm

Yeah where there is a will there is a way.

I will dig out the book and finish reading it. But again I ask what do you all do about what to put on the salads since I eat a ton of salads and can't imagine them without some sort of dressing. I eat most of my salads with homemade raspberry dressing that has olive oil and apple cider vinegar in it (which are both no good in 80-10-10).

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Permalink Reply by Morn on July 25, 2008 at 12:16pm

Hey thanks for all the links. Are these websites free to belong to? Ok now I have to go and try to dig out my book again. I think that is a good suggestion trying it for 30 days. With August around the corner who knows maybe that will be a good time. And yeah I am catching the enthusiasm here. This is one of the only websites I have been to where people are actually educated about the diet and are able to freely discuss it. It was taboo subject on RFT and most people were screened and deleted for talking about it.

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Permalink Reply by Morn on July 29, 2008 at 1:17am

your link for the most recent 30 day 80 10 10 doesn't work. Where can I find it on this site?

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Permalink Reply by VOID on July 25, 2008 at 7:08am

Hey Im glad you have both books, be sure to give dr grahams a good read so you thoroughly understand it. Fruit can 'make' you acidic if your body is high in fat, but its not actually the fruit that does that, its the fat...how do you know? Because when you remove it, it doesnt make you acidic anymore. I was recommended the Ph Miracle book a few years ago and declined to read it. There were some interesting ideas, I had skimmed it a few times, and I think alkalinity is important, but for him to say fruit is acidic is a misunderstanding. It isnt just Dr graham that thinks fruit is alkaline, its the entire scientific community.

You dont have the time to track all your calories, so make your meals simple. The simpler the better. Eat one type of food at a time. Get to know how many calories you need by using nutridiary.com or something like that. When you know how many calories you need then you can track how much youre eating. You only need to check foods a couple of times. for example if you know you need 2000 calories say, and if you learn that a large banana has 100 calories, then you can guess how many banans you need to eat to get a large proportion of your calories in. If you know how much a watermelon or half a large watermelon contains then you can work that out and so on. You dont need to memorise lots of fruits, you can just work it out roughly.

You will know after you have had your evening meal if you havent eaten enough calories because you will still be craving something sweet. You nkow if you havent eaten enough after a few days because you start craving starches or fats. Then you just keep increasing.

It IS easy. going on nutridiary.com will take you 5 minutes, I think you are misusing your imagination to make this a bigger deal than it is. If you can come on here to write a post then you definately have time to work out how many calories you need to eat in a day. It takes moments. 5 minutes of your day IS easy.

Eating addiction or food addiction can occur often because you are undereating on calories. Its just your bodys wisdom. If you are eating enough healthy calories then it occurs because you are bored. Get a life, meet some of your EMOTIONAL needs rather than substituting with physical needs such as food. If you have an interesting and varied life then food will become less interesting to you. Food is just a means to an end, it should never be that important that you cant change it for the better at the drop of a hat. If you cant, then you are misusing your imagination and you need to take control, and you need to start meeting some of your other needs because its your bodys way of telling you that you have become too dependant on something...you've put all your eggs in one basket so to speak.

Examples of emotional needs as Identified by human givens instutute UK include

# Security — safe territory and an environment which allows us to develop fully
# Attention (to give and receive it) — a form of nutrition
# Sense of autonomy and control — having volition to make responsible choices
# Being emotionally connected to others
# Feeling part of a wider community
# Friendship, intimacy — to know that at least one other person accepts us totally for who we are, “warts 'n' all”
# Privacy — opportunity to reflect and consolidate experience
# Sense of status within social groupings
# Sense of competence and achievement
# Meaning and purpose — which come from being stretched in what we do and think.

You need to work out what areas are lacking, where you are currently attempting to meet your needs in positive and negative ways, and come up with ideas for how you can start meeting your needs in more satisfying ways. Then go do it!

You have a well of resources to help, you, such as

* The ability to develop complex long term memory, which enables us to add to our innate knowledge and learn
* The ability to build rapport, empathise and connect with others
* Imagination, which enables us to focus our attention away f

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Permalink Reply by VOID on July 25, 2008 at 7:10am

* Imagination, which enables us to focus our attention away from our emotions, use language and problem solve more creatively and objectively
* Emotions and instincts
* A conscious, rational mind that can check out our emotions, question, analyse and plan
* The ability to 'know' — that is, understand the world unconsciously through metaphorical pattern matching
* An observing self — that part of us that can step back, be more objective and be aware of itself as a unique centre of awareness, apart from intellect, emotion and conditioning
* A dreaming brain that preserves the integrity of our genetic inheritance every night by metaphorically defusing expectations held in the autonomic arousal system because they were not acted out the previous day.

So make use of them!!!!!!

Hope this helps

Take care

Adam x

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